RE: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism Speech Tonight

Date: Mon 08 Sep 2003 - 18:24:38 GMT

  • Next message: "Iraq's Path to Sovereignty"

    From: Vincent Campbell <> To: "''"
    <> Subject: RE: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism Speech Tonight Date sent: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:43:22 +0100 Send reply to:

    > Joe why don't you just join up and get yourself posted out there?
    > Despite continual attempts by fellow list members and the moderator to
    > get you to stick to the topic and avoid these continual pointless
    > tirades against anyone who doesn't worship at the idol of Rumsfeld,
    > you continue to press that send button. The problem is it just makes
    > me, and I suspect many others want to filter out or delete everything
    > you send, which is a shame since when you're writing on topic you
    > always contribute usefully. I just can't be arsed to wade through
    > your ultra-fascist, shoot first ask questions later, the winners are
    > always right, line on events that you've taken since (and obviously
    > been blinded by) Sep 11th.
    > Vincent
    I'm 47; that's why. I was only answering Jeremy's extremely inaccurate and zealously aggressive post - and now I shall answer yours. People who have internalized the cognitively blinding "Hate Bush" meme cannot constitutionally seem to stomach the notion that he could be right about ANYthing, in either words or actions. The "Hate Bush" meme seems to have completely filtered out any possibility for them to grasp anything but a meme-constructed parallel 'reality' that includes as it's main element "Bush as Devil Incarnate". They get extremely emotional and illogical concerning this when presented with the facts, just as Islamofascists (who are the REAL fascists, thankyouverymuch, despite your stream of gratuitous and false ad hominems) do when told that infidels shouldn't have to choose between conversion, death or dhimmitude. And the US did NOT shoot first; there is the little matter of two DOZEN terrorist attacks by Al Quaeda, culminating in 9/11, and hundreds of attacks on coalition aircraft patrolling no-fly zones to keep a dictator from further mass-murdering Shiites and Kurds. Plus, the winners are not always wrong (there goes that "David vs. Goliath", nothing-the-powerful-can-do-is-right, nothing-the-weak-can-do-is-wrong meme again, the same one that is being so successfully exploited by jihadist suicide bombers). After Hamas broke the truce by bus-bombing 21 people to death, amny of them children, and after the al Quaedans in Iraq killed UN envoy Di Mello (mainly, I'll bet, because he brokered the secession of East Timor, rather than stand by and let the Muslims there massacre the infidel Christian population) and bombed the Najaf mosque killing the leading shiite cleric, it seems that people would begin to grasp that these people are out to destroy anyone who is noty an ideological and memetic clone of themselves, but NOOOOO, those who should realize that their very existence as free people is under attack by implacable fanatics are too infested with the "Hate Bush" meme to have their precious attentions diverted by anything so irrelevent as the intervention of actual reality...
    > > ----------
    > > From:
    > > Reply To:
    > > Sent: Monday, September 8, 2003 4:49 AM
    > > To:
    > > Subject: Re: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism Speech Tonight
    > >
    > > Date sent: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 12:43:40 +1000
    > > To:
    > > From: Jeremy Bradley <>
    > > Subject: Re: The Text of Dubya's Terrorism Speech
    > > Tonight
    > > Send reply to:
    > >
    > > > At 08:47 PM 7/09/03 -0500, you wrote:
    > > > >Go to:
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > Joe
    > > > What has this propaganda got to do with memetics? Surely, if the
    > > > USA went to war against the advice of most Nations in the
    > > > civilised world, should they not now shoulder the burden of
    > > > rectifying that rogue act alone? Why expect the UN to pick up the
    > > > pieces now when the US, has killed up to 10,000 inocent Iraquis,
    > > > destroyed infrastructure, denigrated the UN's ability to detect
    > > > WMD's, told lies and even refused to pay their dues? When I wanted
    > > > to discus the 'Might is Right' meme that lies at the core of US
    > > > arrogance, you inflamed the topic so that the meme could not be
    > > > rationally, and academically, addressed. So why should you now
    > > > want to insult our intelligence with GW's latest BS Bulletin?
    > > > Jeremy
    > > >
    > > Let's begin with your factual inaccuracies and go on from there.
    > > The so-called few countries in the 'civilized world', (and far less
    > > than half of even the European Union), France, Germany and Russia
    > > among them (plus the encircled Belgium), who used the UN as a
    > > cynical tool in order to block the liberation of twenty-plus million
    > > people, were acting from selfish and not globally responsible
    > > motives, considering that they had surreptitiously circumvented UN
    > > resolutions to sell weapons and weapons-producing technology to Iraq
    > > and were upset at seeing their fat oil contracts, which they had
    > > received in payment from a grateful mass-murdering dictator, lose
    > > their multibillion-dollar worth before their eyes with the despot's
    > > fall. I suppose that if these nations
    > >
    > > decide to help with Iraq's democratic reconstruction, that they may
    > > get those Saddamic bribes revalidified; they certainly would not do
    > > so out of principles such as democracy, personal freedom and self-
    > > determination. The US has killed far fewer than 10,000 civilian
    > > Iraqi noncombatants; in fact, the Iraq war was indeed the most
    > > civilian'conscious in history (followed closely by the Afghan war).
    > > Most credible counts put the Afghan civilian casualties at around
    > > 3000, and the Iraqi casualties as much lower (this in comparison to
    > > a dictator who has caused the deaths of more than 2 MILLION Muslims
    > > during his rule, more than any other human being in history, and
    > > would have continued to do so ad nauseum had he not been stopped).
    > > The US pays about 20% of UN dues, even though there are 190 other
    > > member countries. It recently paid a large chunk of its arrears to
    > > the UN, in spite of the nakedly self-seving obstructionism of some
    > > of its more globally irresponsible and greedy members, and its
    > > bizarre policies of putting terrorist-harboring dictator-lead
    > > countries like Syria and Libya at the head of important disarmament
    > > and human rights committees. Infrastructure? The vast majority of
    > > it was left standing by the US action, which did NOT resort to heavy
    > > bombing, but rather utilized precision smart bomb strikes against
    > > command posts and troop concentrations as an adjunct to a ground war
    > > that should have forever dispelled the Al Quaeda myth that the US
    > > was a cowardly paper tiger that would turn tail and run in the face
    > > of casualties (although that myth
    > >
    > > was already pretty much already destroyed in Afghanistan). The only
    > > reason that the infrastructure is not completely functional now (and
    > > it operated badly under Saddam, but no one dared complain THEN, did
    > > they?) is as a result of Baathist holdouts and Al Quaeda jihadists
    > > continuously attempting to sabotage it as a means to obstruct the
    > > democratic reconstruction of Iraq, a process that is making great
    > > strides in the Kurdish north and the Shiite south and is only facing
    > > a degree of difficulty in the Sunni triangle which forms Saddam's
    > > power base. As far as lies go, the info. that Dubya's famous
    > > 'sixteen words' was based upon came from British intelligence, and
    > > he did not assert that Saddam had SUCCEEDED in obtaining fissionable
    > > uranium from some African countries; merely that Saddam had SOUGHT
    > > it there - a charge that is almost certainly true. WMD's? There is
    > > credible evidence that, following Russian advice, Saddam moved some
    > > of his WMD's to a burial location in the Lebanese bekaa valley and
    > > destroyed others. There is also the evidence of the gas centrifuge
    > > pieces found buried in an Iraqi nuclear scientist's rose garden,
    > > and his testimony that he had been told, by Qusay Hussein (one of
    > > Saddam's late sons) to hide them there until the heat was off, at
    > > which time they would be unearthed and used to purify fissionable
    > > uranium for use in building nuclear weapons. And what would the
    > > purpose of these weapons be? To allow Saddam to threaten any nation
    > > that dared to try to expel him once he completed his next planned
    > > move to take over the Saudi Peninsula (Kuwait was only his first
    > > objective in 1990), and then he could perpetrate global blackmail by
    > > strangulating the world's oil supply. And he would not need long-
    > > range missiles in order to effect such an attack, merely need to
    > > smuggle those weapons inside the borders of his target country and
    > > have them detonated onsite by either his own operatives or members
    > > of terror groups (the same thing he had been doing for years by
    > > paying 10K per Palestinian suicide bomber to their families, only writ large).
    > > Now, the question is, why would you, with an obvious lack of
    > > knowledge and study of the relevant issues, make such egregious and
    > > demostrably false claims? I think that it is as a result of
    > > unreasoning hate. In other words, I believe that it is because you
    > > have been infected
    > >
    > > with the "Dubya is the Antichrist" meme, and quite irrationally view
    > > him as worse than Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao combined, and even
    > > worse than the Al Quaedans, who OPENLY wish to destroy all freedoms
    > > of religion, thought, action and choice, and annihilate all traces
    > > of democracy from the entire world, replacing all these with a
    > > repressive global theocratic islamofascist Ummah run according to
    > > sharia law. Let me be clear about this; I am no Dubya-lover. I
    > > consider his borrow-and-spend fiscal policies to be as economically
    > > undermining as the democrats' borrow-and-spend policies (at leat
    > > Clinton realized that even the federal credit card would have to be
    > > eventually paid). I also am distressed by his undermining of
    > > church-state separation, as evinced by his support for religious
    > > school vouchers, federal support for faith-based initiatives, and
    > > opposition to abortion (none of which have passed into law).
    > > However, I agree with his pursuing the terror plotters to their
    > > bases so we have less of a chance of once again seeing them wreak
    > > their carnage on our streets. Iraq is serving as an Al Quaeda
    > > flypaper (although it couldn't function as such without their
    > > cooperation). Let the jihadists journey to Tikrit and fight armed
    > > and alert US troops, rather than journey to the US and massacre
    > > unarmed and clueless civilians on local streets. I do not see a
    > > single Democratic
    > >
    > > candidate that 'gets' this, so, for the first time since I was 18 (I
    > > am 47), I may have to sit the next presidential election out (and
    > > no, I have NEVER voted for a Republican in a presidential election).
    > > Or perhaps it is because you are infected with the "David and
    > > Goliath" meme, and cannot wrap your mind around the concept that
    > > sometimes might and right can indeed occasionally coincide (as ended
    > > up happening in WW II). (Scratching my head and shaking it sadly
    > > all at the same time)...
    > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    > > >
    > > > Jeremy Bradley
    > > > 3200 Oxley Hwy Hartys Plains 2446
    > > > Phone:02 65856652 or 02 65856134
    > > > E-mail:
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > ===============================================================
    > > > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > > > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information
    > > > Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g.
    > > > unsubscribing) see:
    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > =============================================================== This
    > > was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of
    > > Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For
    > > information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see:

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon 08 Sep 2003 - 18:26:40 GMT