Re: Serious concern/ addition 2

From: Van oost Kenneth (
Date: Sat 06 Sep 2003 - 19:02:35 GMT

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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jonathan Davis
      It is an old communist speciality that of branding your political competitors insane. The Chinese are still actively incarcerating the "politically insane". The article is a rather macro-level ad hominem and utter rubbish. Why is it being posted here?

      It was posted in response to what Brad wrote being a conservative. I have no problem with him
      being that at all, but in the strain of this thread it was of essence, I think.
      Dismayed with the fact that despite the US is a democracy and therefor bounded to some
      fundamental rules it still argues with an underlying religious bias.
      That may not concern you, but others are. Within such a frame of reference, thoughts/ ideas/
      concepts, estimations....and etc are troubled and flawed.
      That the US wants to free the Iraqi people from a dictator, ok by me, but not if the main
      reason is religious inspired. That the US, due to its religious bias, finds it necessary_
      a fundamental necessity as it seems to be_ to free people, to go to war, to help out others,
      ok, but this sounds more like a ' Bildung- principle ' than it is an upright concern for their fellowman.
      That concerns me....
      Within the realm of the religious/ Christian bias of the US and the facts of ' freedom '
      attached to such a conviction it is a serious concern that the foreign policy of the US
      finds its priciples within such thoughts.

      I also note the Michael Mooresque moan about incarceration rates and black Americans. The simple and horrible truth is that the incarceration rates reflect the offending rates perfectly. You does the crime , you does the time.
      Ok, I agree, but if the numbers are correct, than you have to look why so many fellow
      countrymen of African origin are doing the crimes.
      If, like some argue, it is their nature, than you walk that religious/ creation path again.
      If you don 't walk that walk than you ought to look at society/ culture itself, and than
      you will find that American history wasn 't that kind at all..and IMO still is.
      And if you find that ain 't the truth either than you have to look at employent- rates,
      education, living conditions, health...;etc to find out what went and goes wrong.

      The Americans have enjoyed an enormous drop in crime over the last 10 years. The recent peaceful blackout in New York is an excellent example of how much things have improved. Simply contrast the riots in 1977 with last months peaceful and relatively crime free blackout.

      Yes, but that is not to say that all problems are solved. Recently, policemen were set free
      after they bodily harmed a black young man. Those policeman were set free, the guy who
      took the shot was prosecuted for violating the privacy of those man ! Oh, come on Jon, still
      such matters work trought and on one final day the horror will start again.
      That great society is defeating crime, we ought to imitating their success.
      Maybe, but on the other end of the spectum it is creating a major problem.
      That black people are doing the crimes must have its reasons, if the society won 't solve
      these you ain 't defeating crime, you just lock up those who are doing the crimes.
      But " crime " itself doesn 't go away by doing that.
      And if you don 't solve crime at its bias and thus don 't question society/ culture at all,
      you take a conservative point of view, and that is IMO from the beginning wrong anyway.
      You can 't hold giving values forever, they must go with the flow of time.
      Holding on to those religious fundamentals and moreover more are getting installed is
      in the long term nefast for society/ culture as such.
      And America is a democracy.....



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