RE: Serious concern

From: Virginia Bowen (
Date: Mon 18 Aug 2003 - 19:33:14 GMT

  • Next message: Scott Chase: "RE: Serious concern"

    If those numbers are true, this is indeed a VERY serious concern. I myself have tended to believe in "live and let live" with regard to fact mostly preferring their company and tend to live in areas that are primarily Christian. But I carefully avoid religious conversation with those folk. Only very, very, very close friends know of my non-belief.

    I DO, however, mention evolution and don't *think* I get strange looks or cold shoulders. But now I wonder if they think I'm "one of those" behind my back...

    I'd like to know where the numbers come from. So I will do an internet search. Thanks for bringing this column to our attention.

    But this leads to something I've been mulling lately. Do you all think that memes are *genetically* inheritable? I was wondering just yesterday if the general level of introspective intelligence in the populace at large would be affected with the seeming lack of huge reproduction numbers among the more academic sorts. If more gullible memes are genetically inheritable, then we're on a downslide for sure.


    -----Original Message----- From: [] On Behalf Of Keith Henson Sent: Friday, August 15, 2003 8:24 PM To: Subject: Serious concern

    Believe It, or Not By Nicholas D. Kristof Op-Ed Columnist, New York Times Friday, August 15, 2003 Posted: 9:49 AM EDT (1349 GMT)

    Today marks the Roman Catholics' Feast of the Assumption, honoring the moment that they believe God brought the Virgin Mary into Heaven. So here's a fact appropriate for the day: Americans are three times as likely to believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus (83 percent) as in evolution (28 percent).

    So this day is an opportunity to look at perhaps the most fundamental divide between America and the rest of the industrialized world: faith. Religion remains central to American life, and is getting more so, in a way that is true of no other industrialized country, with the possible exception of South Korea.

    Americans believe, 58 percent to 40 percent, that it is necessary to believe in God to be moral. In contrast, other developed countries overwhelmingly believe that it is not necessary. In France, only 13 percent agree with the U.S. view. (For details on the polls cited in this column, go to

    The faith in the Virgin Birth reflects the way American Christianity is becoming less intellectual and more mystical over time. The percentage of Americans who believe in the Virgin Birth actually rose five points in the latest poll.

    My grandfather was fairly typical of his generation: A devout and active

    Presbyterian elder, he nonetheless believed firmly in evolution and regarded the Virgin Birth as a pious legend. Those kinds of mainline Christians are vanishing, replaced by evangelicals. Since 1960, the number of Pentecostalists has increased fourfold, while the number of Episcopalians has dropped almost in half.

    The result is a gulf not only between America and the rest of the industrialized world, but a growing split at home as well. One of the most poisonous divides is the one between intellectual and religious America.

    Some liberals wear T-shirts declaring, "So Many Right-Wing Christians .
    . . So Few Lions." On the other side, there are attitudes like those on a Web site,, explaining the 2000 election this way:

    "God defeated armies of Philistines and others with confusion. Dimpled and hanging chads may also be because of God's intervention on those who were voting incorrectly. Why is GW Bush our president? It was God's choice."

    The Virgin Mary is an interesting prism through which to examine America's emphasis on faith because most Biblical scholars regard the evidence for

    the Virgin Birth, and for Mary's assumption into Heaven (which was proclaimed as Catholic dogma only in 1950), as so shaky that it pretty much has to be a leap of faith. As the Catholic theologian Hans Küng puts it in
    "On Being a Christian," the Virgin Birth is a "collection of largely uncertain, mutually contradictory, strongly legendary" narratives, an echo of virgin birth myths that were widespread in many parts of the ancient world.

    Jaroslav Pelikan, the great Yale historian and theologian, says in his book
    "Mary Through the Centuries" that the earliest references to Mary (like Mark's gospel, the first to be written, or Paul's letter to the Galatians) don't mention anything unusual about the conception of Jesus. The Gospels of Matthew and Luke do say Mary was a virgin, but internal evidence suggests that that part of Luke, in particular, may have been added later by someone else (it is written, for example, in a different kind of Greek than the rest of that gospel).

    Yet despite the lack of scientific or historical evidence, and despite the doubts of Biblical scholars, America is so pious that not only do 91 percent of Christians say they believe in the Virgin Birth, but so do an

    astonishing 47 percent of U.S. non-Christians.

    I'm not denigrating anyone's beliefs. And I don't pretend to know why America is so much more infused with religious faith than the rest of the world. But I do think that we're in the middle of another religious Great Awakening, and that while this may bring spiritual comfort to many, it will also mean a growing polarization within our society.

    But mostly, I'm troubled by the way the great intellectual traditions of

    Catholic and Protestant churches alike are withering, leaving the scholarly and religious worlds increasingly antagonistic. I worry partly because of the time I've spent with self-satisfied and unquestioning mullahs and imams, for the Islamic world is in crisis today in large part because of a similar drift away from a rich intellectual tradition and toward the mystical. The heart is a wonderful organ, but so is the brain.

    Nicholas D. Kristof is an op-ed columnist for the New York Times.

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