RE: Precision of replication

From: Lawrence DeBivort (
Date: Thu 19 Jun 2003 - 18:24:51 GMT

  • Next message: Lawrence DeBivort: "RE: Precision of replication"

    Wade, many thanks. This is very helpful. I understand your thinking, I think, on cultural venue, the mise-en-scene.

    So: there is the expression of the idea by the transmitter, this is received by the receiver, as best possible, but the transmission is also affected by the cultural venue. That is, the venue itself contains artifacts that modify or delete or add to the substance of the idea being transmitted. Is this what you are arguing?

    And, are you also saying, that some of these artifacts in the cultural venue are located not just in the physical space being shared by transmitter and receiver, but might also be lodged in the mind of the receiver and so serve as some sort of filter that further distorts the transmitter's idea?

    And, further, if one changes the elements in the venue then one may change the net effect of the transmission?

    Again, thanks for the caliber of your response and the time you put into it.

    Cheers, Lawry

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: []On Behalf
    > Of Wade T. Smith
    > Sent: Wed, June 18, 2003 9:10 PM
    > To:
    > Subject: Re: Precision of replication
    > On Wednesday, June 18, 2003, at 06:22 PM, Lawrence wrote:
    > > Wade, please bear with me -- could you explain succinctly what you
    > > mean by
    > > 'cultural venue'? I suspect you have done so many times in past posts,
    > > but
    > > truth be told, I have had a hard time following the elaborate and
    > > esoteric
    > > discussions between you and Richard and Dace. My apologies.
    > Elaborate? Esoteric? No wonder neither of us impressed the other....
    > Cultural venue is extended from 'venue'- the scene of any event or
    > action- but, it is also more closely described by the good ole french
    > phrase 'mise en scene'- the arrangement of scenery and properties to
    > represent the place where a play or movie is enacted- mostly because
    > cultural venue also requires arrangement. The french 'mise en scene' is
    > literally 'what is put into the scene', and I've always liked that.
    > When you put a bed in a scene, one expects sleep, or sex, or both. The
    > cultural venue is an arrangement of properties that elicit a
    > performance. When you said- "Might the interdependence and interaction
    > of the memes within a memeplex not serve to _increase_ the fidelity of
    > the transmission?" that impacted to the definition of the venue because
    > the venue is precisely that- the set of properties which are distinctly
    > ordered and commanded to ensure the fidelity of performance.
    > You were very semantically close to the function of the venue.
    > Regardless of how elaborate and esoteric an explanation I've supplied
    > about stages and sets and churches and so forth, no one but Kenneth has
    > understood the importance of the properties of the venue- but it is one
    > third of the operation of cultural evolution, as its part as a player
    > cannot be denied.
    > It is an analog to the physical environment involved in genetic
    > evolution, a requirement as well of speciation and selection and
    > development.
    > When you introduce a meme- in your jargon- what you are doing is
    > performing (or placing an artifact, which is the result of a
    > performance) into a venue- initially altering the venue, and, by the
    > performances that may follow, altering the performances within. This
    > can be as simple as, in Richard's example, changing the width of an
    > exit from a stadium.
    > But, indeed, all cultures require a venue, because all cultural
    > interaction requires a performer and an observer, and they cannot exist
    > in two dimensional space or time. The venue is this space, but it is
    > also the cultural milieu, and it is also a controlled environment, made
    > to ensure, through repetition and experience and alterations,
    > performances of continuing fidelity.
    > It is a form, if you will, of prediction, the venue. This is a fact
    > Richard has continually chosen to ignore.
    > - Wade
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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    > see:

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:

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