Date: Sun 25 May 2003 - 18:38:03 GMT
> On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 05:48 AM, Joe misunderstood me and said:
> > Only if one considers one's own mind to be part of the venue, but
> > that is not what Wade means.
> You still don't know what I mean, or at least, have not, so far, been
> able to put it into your own words, because what I absolutely mean is
> that there are at least two minds that are part of the minimum venue,
> (and the venue is almost never at minimum)- the mind of the performer,
> and the mind of the observer. I've said that at least three dozen
> And here's precisely where you don't get it-
> > 1. Wade is denying the cognitive gestalt;
> > 2. he is rejecting the very idea of mentally stored memes.
> Because I reject that there is any required connection between those
> two phrases.
> 1. I do not deny the cognitive functioning of the human brain, and
> never have. And yes,
> 2. I reject the necessity of a mentally stored meme as part of the
> cognitive gestalt.
Then whaddaya think the cognitive gestalt is formed of, chopped liver? It's formed from all the things we've learned since birth; the things we can't communicate (private perceptions/sensations) and things we can communicate, most of which were communicated to us (spoken and written language, specific meaningful strings of it, ways to do things demonstrated to us, etc.). This second group, the communicables, are indeed memes. They were and are communicated to us, we have and do communicate them to others, and on and on and on...
> But, the one does not demand the other. _Your_ basic formula here,
> that mental cognition _requires memes_, is _not the supposition_ of
> the performance model, which does not posit any mechanism for
> cognition, but accepts it. Meanwhile, your supposition is in no way
> supported by any fact, and no cognitive scientist is spending their
> sucked up for grant money searching for a meme in the brain, although
> many a cognitive philosopher has argued for them as a symbolic or
> explanatory device.
> A restaurant does not need a butchery within it to serve filet mignon,
> but it sure needs one somewhere. The ingredients necessary can come
> from outside, and, do.
Jeez! If memes do not enter within, what's the point of them traveling between? You're proposing the nonsensical model of a journey bereft of either source or destination, and it won't even wash with Tide. When you can figure out how to run a horse race without a starting gate or a finish line, or even a cognitive jockey, with the idea of racing in his mind, directing the performative horse, lemme know. In fact, memes, as the subclass of memories/knowledge/ideas which is communicable, MUST issue from a cognitive source to embark upon their actional/performative journey through the perceptual modalities of others, and into their cognitive gestalts, to be possibly passed on from there in turn.
> - Wade
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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