Re: Ever Since Jeremy Bradley

From: Dace (
Date: Sat 03 May 2003 - 01:19:33 GMT

  • Next message: "Re: Ever Since Jeremy Bradley"

    > From: Keith Henson <>
    > Joe Dees wrote
    > >Hokay. I would just like to point out that the US had to play dirty pool
    > >with friendly dictators in order to effectively contend with the Soviet
    > >in the world arena, where they were doing the same thing in spades.
    > To point this discussion back to memes, particularly *religious memes*
    > went on between the Soviet bloc and the rest of the world was really a
    > religious war--against communism. I think it will eventually be
    > that communism was in competition for the religious meme receptor site in
    > human mental "space" and that the wars were a continuation of a very long
    > series of religious wars.

    Dug up this quote from Toynbee, *A Study of History* (abridged, 1947) Part V, pp 399-400:

    If Karl Marx had been challenged by some Victorian censor morum to give his spiritual name and address, he would have described himself as a disciple of the philosopher Hegel, applying the Hegelian dialectic to the economic and political phenomena of his day. But the elements that have made Communism an explosive force are not of Hegel's creation; they bear on their face their certificate of origin from the ancestral religious faith of the West-- a Christianity which, three hundred years after the philosophic challenge from Descartes, was still being drunk in by every Western child with its mother's milk and inhaled by every Western man and woman with the air they breathed. And such elements as cannot be traced to Christianity can be traced to Judaism, the "fossilized" parent of Christianity which had been preserved by a Jewish Diaspora and volatilized through the opening of the ghettos and the emancipation of Western Jewry in the generation of Marx's grandparents. Marx has taken the goddess "Historical Necessity" in place of Yahweh for his deity, and the internal proletariat of the Western World in place of Jewry for his chosen people, and his Messianic Kingdom is conceived of as a Dictatorship of the Proletariat; but the salient features of the Jewish Apocalypse protrude through this threadbare disguise.

    However, it looks as if the religious phase in the evolution of Communism may prove ephemeral. The conservative national Communism of Stalin seems to have decisively defeated the revolutionary oecumenical Communism of Trotsky in the Russian field.


    Without the meme, communism ran out of steam.


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