Re: Bad times traits

From: Jeremy Bradley (
Date: Sat 26 Apr 2003 - 04:56:09 GMT

  • Next message: Wade T. Smith: "Re: memetics-digest V1 #1328"

    At 07:02 PM 21/04/03 -0400, you wrote:
    >At 08:56 AM 21/04/03 +1000, Jeremy wrote:
    >>Wherever colonisers have re-drawn boundaries to serve their greedy purposes
    >>the results have been mayhem and disaster no matter how long has ensued.
    >>This is because the memes of hatred, caused by the cheating or forcing
    >>sovereign Peoples out of their birthrights, do not pass away with the
    >>transit of a few generations.
    >These are the kinds of statements that can be disproved with a single
    >example. Try the Norman invasion/takeover of England in 1066.

    Jeremy: Traces of the Norman takeover are lingering in the English language as indicators that the 'takeover' was not without resentment (the animal, cow - the meat, beef etc.). It could be that Europeans were inured to conquest and had learned to ride it out for a few generations. I don't know.
    > There are other examples, such as the southern states of the United

    Jeremy: Try calling a Southerner a 'yank' even today and it will show an intergenerational resentment. Besides, there were other factors at play here, they both spoke a form of English and still do. Also, I do agree, the economic factors did, IMHO, swing against the Southerners when the carpetbaggers etc plundered the assets of the South
    >And it would be really interesting to see if the economic situation played a
    >hidden role in the falling support for the IRA in northern Ireland. As a
    >bet, the most likely thing you would see is falling birthrate over the past
    >20-30 years. At near zero growth, even modest economic growth is felt in
    >per capita income. And with economic pressure off, memes about revolting
    >to make things better loose appeal.

    Jeremy: You are underestimating the memetic power to preserve cultural identity here Keith.

    >My point, which you don't seem to be arguing against, is that economics
    >plays a far more important part than historical gripes. Chances are fair
    >the US could stay in Iraq forever if they pumped up the economy rapidly at
    >first and then slowly over a long haul.
    >Keith Henson

    Jeremy: I'll take that bet Keith. The codes are as different as can be, an inestimable number of Iraqis see the US as evil incarnate, and that won't change with the power to buy a Big Mac or see a Hollywood film. Besides, if the US tries to add Iraq to its economic Empire, only a small sector of the masses will be advantaged and the rest will be resentful of both the advantaged and the US (look at the poverty stats in the US itself). The world is waiting to see credible evidence 'smoking gun' and the protection of oil wells and the Oil Ministry after the 'smart-bombing' of all other utilities is an indication of what the 'war' was really about. The conditions are rife for many further deaths from lack of water and electricity than have already occurred. You can't expect that a country will accept the death and destruction in the name of 'freedom' and
    'democracy' (both being denied already) pay for the 'reconstruction' by foreign contractors with their assets, be hosts to 'uncivilised' occupation forces and like it. The US will be hated there for many generations Cheers Jeremy

    The leader who leads from faith works from a warped version of strength Wade T Smith

    Jeremy Bradley 3200 Oxley Hwy Wauchope 2446 Phone:02 65856652 or 02 65856134 E-mail:

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