Re: memetics-digest V1 #1321

From: Van oost Kenneth (
Date: Thu 27 Mar 2003 - 20:14:00 GMT

  • Next message: Van oost Kenneth: "Re: checkers/ To Wade"

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wade T. Smith" <> Meaning and intent, so gleefully
    > propounded by the memeinthemind theorists, implies design, and, I'm not
    > actually very sorry, but ID is out of the question in darwinian
    > analysis, and it should be totally out of the question in memetics.

    If for whatever reason ' design ' has to be counted in, in the analyses of memetics, than yes indeed Darwinian models are out of the question. Design implies Lamarckian patterns ! But,.......

    And yet, this motive to 'memetically engineer' persists. Perhaps it is, in
    > some root, fascistic? I personally think so. I personally reject it,
    > precisely so. It is also rejectable because, outside of culture,
    > meaning and intent and even method all vanish, as I so perfectly
    > observed with the Tlingit tribal elders, and as thousands if not
    > millions of extinctions of cultures over time and history attest.

    Here I think I must disagree partly. Memetical engineering people in the ways that they would fit into an ideological/ political/ cultural/ social/... standard, I agree and I too would call this fascistic, but not, maybe I am ( very) naive if you use the analyses to ' help ' people. I said this before, knowing what memetics implies and yes thinking about the possible influences which personal performances or per- formances done by others ( will) have on you, your friends, family, state, land, etc can result in setting up ' aid- programs '.

    I am personally all for a ' complete ' freedom of the individual, in that respect that now, call them ' offenders ', ain 't got the proper social/ cultural ' tools ' to their disposal to do what they want to do. Therefor I am keen on what is called holodeck- technology, what IMO can benefit, in its final practical application, of the process of analyses in memetics. Where now ' sexual abusers ' , within a culture, has no place to go, besides prison if they were to be caught, I forsee, and that day will never come, I know that, that one day they will get access to perfectly constructed surroundings, with all of its sensorially perceived and stored stimuli, that will fit their needs.

    If memetics would be the pattering of the motions of culture and if performances are the units of culture_ and I never saw, Wade, that any performance was excluded in your scheme_ than the
    ' performances ' of those participants should have a place to fit in, ( in our culture ). Now those people ' perform ' in our outside world with all their consequences attached to, it would be better, for the both of us, I suppose, that we 'll have both a place where we rightly can cultural/ social ' perform ' what, when, where and how we want........No !?


    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu 27 Mar 2003 - 19:59:37 GMT