Re: Memes For Peace

From: Bryan Thompson (
Date: Sun 09 Mar 2003 - 15:50:56 GMT

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    indeed, my signature line is an ad for a novel. it is my fathers and I use my signature to support it. It's not like I'm spamming the list or anything with this ad. I think it's proper netiquette to use any kind of signature you like. this is a (hopefully) free country after all ;)

    *Peace* Bryan Thompson Living Proof - Berkley paperback - March 2003 Government secrets/biological weapons/human subjects

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Bruce Howlett
      Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 4:53 AM
      Subject: Re: Memes For Peace

      While I tend to agree with Joe on the humanitarian aspect of the Iraq situation, there are other issues implicit in the wording of Bryan's post which cause concern. The least not being the concept of "memetic engineering", which I think is an oxymoron. Even the opposing forces within the memetics definition debate agree that a meme is a cultural unit. Is not culture the conglomerate of inherited ideas, beliefs, values and knowledge? Have not all attempts to overtly "engineer" culture failed? I think what Bryan is contemplating is more correctly termed a cult - a quasi-religious organisation using psychological techniques to gain and control adherents. While memetics is seductive by its ability to provide insight into the illogical and normally inexplicable aspects of human behaviour, it is not a manipulative tool. Even the advertising spin doctors can only hope that their carefully crafted images and words may produce a memetic event.

      The most useful tool for understanding current world situation is systems theory relating to competition and cooperation. So who gains and who loses? Why are the French and German leaders so opposed to the Americans intervening? What about Korea? Do you really think that this is just about "weapons-of-mass-destruction"? As usual it is about economics, but that does not mean there are any simple answers.

      "Peace" is a convenient concept for those of us on the inside of a comfortable western lifestyle that gives us a reasonable amount of free choice, but even that depends on how wealthy you are.

      Bryan, I think you deal mainly in the realm of paranoia. The give-away is the tag line in your signature block, "Government secrets/biological weapons/human subjects". I don't think you will get much support from the users of this list.


      Bruce Howlett

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Bryan Thompson
        Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 5:29 PM
        Subject: Memes For Peace

        Hi everyone. I have started a new group dedicated to use Memetic
        Engineering to spread peace and stop an imminent war on Iraq. It's address
        is at We may also discuss
        politics, Sociology and Psychology, Neuro-linguistic programming, culture
        jamming and any other topic that interests you. We will also discuss how
        memes affect the news media and how people in power and the media use memes
        and other concepts to portray an event. If any of these things interest
        you, please check it out! Thank you.

        Bryan Thompson
        Living Proof - Berkley paperback - March 2003
        Government secrets/biological weapons/human subjects

        This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
        Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
        For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:

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