Re: Sue Blackmore lecture Wednesday 5.15pm London

From: William Benzon (
Date: Thu 20 Feb 2003 - 15:02:50 GMT

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    on 2/19/03 11:11 PM, Scott Chase at wrote:

    >> From: Keith Henson <>
    >> Reply-To:
    >> To:
    >> Subject: Re: Sue Blackmore lecture Wednesday 5.15pm London
    >> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:36:15 -0500
    >> snip
    >>>> Poppycock. What about the "meme's eye view"? I thought (oops a meme in
    >>>> my head caused me to think) that it's not us having memes, but that
    >>>> it's all about the memes having us. Conscious "choice", volition, or
    >>>> "free will" is nothing more than a castle in the sky, a meme that has
    >>>> captured us in its net and caused us to "think" (whatver that empty
    >>>> word means) that we have "control".
    >>> The 'meme's eye view' is as much of a fiction as the 'gene's eye view',
    >>> the 'God's eye view' and the 'stone's eye view'.
    >>>> "I" am not "me". "I" am an automaton driven by a collection of mental
    >>>> contagions, deluded that "I've" a "self" there. That's what the memes
    >>>> want me to "think" ;)
    >> ROTFLMAO (Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off) Stones with eyes yet.
    >>> If you think that memes WANT ANYTHING, much less for you to think a
    >>> certain thing, even the information they contain, then you have a
    >>> homuncular misunderstanding of memetics. But I doubt that you think
    >>> that. I think you were being sarcasticly humorous, and if so, you did a
    >>> reasonable job of lampooning the misunderstandings of some in the
    >>> field.
    >> You been trolled, and missed the wink ;)
    >> Keith Henson
    >> (Though funny as it is, it captures a corner of reality. :-) )
    > Joe wasn't trolled. He caught the wink and knows me well enough that he
    > recognized my disdain for memetic marionette views. That you see a corner of
    > reality captured shows my satire wasn't too far off base after all.
    > My contention with Joe would be that if he asserts volition or conscious
    > choice and that memes don't have people, instead of vice versa, at what
    > point does his view diverge from memetics.
    > Memetic purity is a good starting point for demolition and Benzon seems to
    > be gearing up his wrecking ball.

    Actually, I figure I'm winding down at this point.


    William L. Benzon
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    201 217-1010
    "Jazz will endure as long as people hear it with their feet instead of their
    ~John Philip Sousa 
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