Re: Tolerance was Re: Hello !?

From: Van oost Kenneth (
Date: Sat 15 Feb 2003 - 16:12:49 GMT

  • Next message: Van oost Kenneth: "Re: Tolerance was Re: Hello !?"

    ----- Original Message ----- From: <>

    Kenneth, This is not a matter of integration, this is a question of ideology. Joe,
    > No, it is just insisted that they not attempt to impose their more
    > restrictive mores on others. A more tolerant society can tolerate most
    > of the puritan practices of less tolerant groups within it, so long as
    > do not try to impose them on all, but a less-tolerant society cannot
    > stomack the more tolerant and free practicing greater freedoms within it
    > than it traditionally allows. this, a more tolerant society can include
    > tolerant individuals within it, bit not vice-versa, and this is what
    > the more inclusive society, as far as personal freedom goes, superior.

    Hi Joe,

    Now you' re saying that our society is superior in the context of freedom, despite the fact that the others rely on God himself for giving them the
    ' freedom ' they seek !?

    I suppose the ' they ' in your first sentence of the comment you provided so willingly, are the immigrants !? If so, I agree of course, but the fact remains that is is a question of ideology_ one we impose on them. It is their behavior, it is in their behavior we see aspects we don 't bear. The fact that they are immigrants in the first place is a choise of their own choosing and therefor they are moved into a minority position. If you want to stay Muslim, again this is a choise of free choosing on their behalf, if you are discriminated for it, don 't blame us_ adapt ! Those are the people we, some individuals, are tolerant to, has tolerance for...

    I agree that we, like the individuals we are, choose to be tolerant towards those described above, but the overal picture remains one of ideology_ better would be to say, there are too many aspects within the problematic which are historical- ideological coloured. Democracy raises its fist, in a positive way, against everything what, against everybody who can be described as the " mis- fortunes- ones", people like women, disabled people, old ones and the sick. Those are minorities by fate. As a consequence they need our support and solidarity.

    The other group, immigrants, homosexuals, punks, homeless and unemployment ones are like that by choise. Those are the people needing our sympathy and tolerance. The self image we have is partly deduced out of both cate- gories, but the last can " remain " here as such because of the tolerance of others and that is part of the overal picture of democracy ( equality for all) and thus of the ideology of free- dom, prosperity and forbearance. It is within the bounderies of democracy that greater freedoms for those groups are allowed, than the society traditionally allows
    ( like marriage between two people of the same sexe), I believe that is due to the tolerance- aspect and not, like many people think to believe, to changes within society.



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