Re: memes defined operationally (from article)

From: Van oost Kenneth (
Date: Sat 18 Jan 2003 - 10:57:28 GMT

  • Next message: Van oost Kenneth: "Re: memes defined operationally (from article)"

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Jonkers" <>
    > Keith:
    > >While I don't feel the need for an exact definition of a meme, applying
    > >to an idea that never makes the jump from person to person misses the
    > >essence of the concept--at least to me.
    > I agree, from an evolutionary point of view elements derived from the
    self-plex are perhaps the least interesting ones. But from a point of view of self-consciousness and the development of the ego they are quite interesting. Also, I think most self-plex memes are being replicated since we are quite an egalitarian bunch of creatures who all use the same language to express our ego in. For instance, revelations like "I am good in math" or
    "I want to be good in physics" can hardly be called unique.

    Hi Phil, Welcome back,

    Maybe we 're an egalitarian bunch, but I don 't really think that we 're all that equal as you might presume. Using the same language is a fine example, but the thing to remerber is how we use the words, nuances, tricks and treats of that language in order to express our ego in.

    In the article, the writer called ' the skeleton of a story ' the most important and the thing that gets transferred. How people tell the story to another is the thing we have to look at. Bill Benzon does this with music, from Gershwin 's I 've got Rhythm a whole set of other ' performances ' are derived over the years. I try to do this with words, ' I ' am good in maths ' can be said in a thousand different ways, each of them will have a different outcome in how people react to it.

    What we need is what is suggested, what is explained as non- content- trans- missions, " that which in a language can be subtle persuasive, and the way[s], especially, that words have a deposition on the things they name a trace of their passage, of leading some of their dust on them, which renders those things, as we assimilate them, a little more foreign to us. " ( CÚline)

    Nothing is expected if we call one a jerk, but it goes anyway without saying. No doubt ' intend ' is involved. We fail to see that one's memes might take our words as they were a threat, an obstruction, as opposite, contorted, ironic, twisted...

    The skeleton ' I 'm good in math ' rests absolute, but not the ways in how it is said and how people receive the info. And not to mention the environment, how is the emotional state, the psychological state, does he understand the language, etc.... This is a very complex issue.



    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat 18 Jan 2003 - 10:37:55 GMT