Re: The Origin of Religions, From a Distinctly Darwinian View

From: Grant Callaghan (
Date: Wed 25 Dec 2002 - 23:22:38 GMT

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    "There is IMO, no proove that leadership, force, intelligence,...made groups. Simply working together could do easily the same trick.  You see this still today, we come all the work, work together for a few hours and go home again, there is no group, just a temporaly convention of intelligence for the sake of the mighty dollar."

    And where you work there is no leadership, no rules and no reference to authority in what the people there do?  How do you decide what to do and how to do it?  Is there a right way and a wrong way to do things?  Who decides what they are?  A group is any bunch of people brought together for any purpose, however temporary.  At night, you go home and join a different group.  Or you might go to a pub and join a different group, still.  But even in the pub there are rules and things you can and can't do.  If a stranger comes into the pub and breaks one of the unwritten rules, such as starting a fight, his is likely to be expelled from the pub.  Even one of the guys who hangs around with the regular crowd who insults the wrong girl or tries to get a way with sponging off his buddies will often be expelled from the group.  The bartender usually enforces the rules for the pub and the various drinking groups usually enforce their own rules of behavior.  People who don't go along to get along are often told to move along.  You don't, for example, want to walk into an Irish pub and start praising the government of England.  Or the Queen.  Or in certain pubs in Belfast, you'd better not brag about you friends in the IRA.  And who will enforce the rules against these things?  The group of drinkers standing around the bar.  They know the rules of that bar -- and they do exist whether they are written on the walls or not.  Leadership, again, comes from both the owner of the bar and the patrons he serves.

    These groups are also groups of selection.  People of like mind tend to hang together.  Catholics hang out in Catholic pubs and the same applies to Protestants.  You choose the group you wish to join, both for work and for drinking.  If you find you don't fit in, you move on and seek another group for that particular activity.  That's why Chicago has large groups of Poles, New York has areas dominated by Italians and Chinese, and so on.  Even in San Diego, the city is divided by culture.  Birds of a feather do flock together.  Leadership shows up in Religion, Business, and gangs of kids on the street corner.  At school, kids again divide themselves along cultural lines.  Again, there are leaders and followers. 

    Fights in school are usually between people of different cultures.  Blacks and Hispanics, Catholics and Protestants, geeks and jocks, the list goes on.  It is natural for people to organize themselves into groups of like-minded people based on the culture of the family they grew up in.  That culture provides the basis for the rules of conduct they decide to adopt.  For people who reject their culture, the rules come from the leadership of the group they join. 

    Like I said before, I don't know of any groups that don't have rules and customs to guide their use of time and effort.  As they say in the states, there are only three things you can do in life -- lead, follow, or get out of the way.  I think that pretty well sums it up.


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