Re: Goobye. Re: FROM THE memetics MODERATOR: this is not a list about Iraq

From: Scott Chase (
Date: Mon 16 Dec 2002 - 23:55:06 GMT

  • Next message: Lawrence de Bivort: "RE: Language and memes"

    >From: John Wilkins <>
    >Subject: Goobye. Re: FROM THE memetics MODERATOR: this is not a list about
    >Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:12:30 +1100
    >I have just come back from 6 weeks holiday to find over 500 messages almost
    >none of which are about memes even tangentially. I will now take steps to
    >be removed from the list. If anyone working in memes starts up a moderated
    >list that is on-topic, let me know.
    You missed some more recent discussion on the "evolution" (iirc) thread that's in your realm of expertise (ie- about memetics and the mindsets of Darwinism versus Lamarckism and whther either are applicable. I can forward a reply of mine to you. I think I've deleted some other posts. Grant and I had a volley where I was asserting that there's a point reached when you diverge from the Darwinian (selectionist and mendelian particulate) core that what one is doing would cease to be memetics and one might want to call it something else. I was hinting at a more solidly Darwinian foundaation underpinning memetic fundamentals than others seemed to have considered. Although I might not agree that Darwinian fundamentals apply to culture in the memetic sense, I was appreciating a memetic purism versus watered down versions that depart from the fundamentals and neutralize the universal acid.

    If you can fast forward to those posts (thread title "evolution", you might find some discussion that suits your fancy.

    I've beentrying to focus one stuff that might be construed as memetic in my posts having to do with Middle Eastern stuff. Recent posts about the anti-Jewish "blood libel" (its apparent origins and its present manifestations) are highly topical even if a hot-button topic.

    Posts dealing with the "Lawrence of Arabia" legend are relevant to how someone's stylized memoirs of their exploits can launch a mythos that shrouds them and makes it difficult to approach them historically. Biographical, historical and to a certain degree, culturally relevant. There's a bit of the heroic theme working there I suppose, especially if one dwells more on the movie and not critical biographies. See the posts where Lawry and I discuss Damascus. How an historical event is portrayed in a movie or book could influence how people view that event and what they pass on to others about that event. That's implicit in the L of Arabia discussions. It could probably be fleshed out quite a bit more and formalized into a more memetically pertinent presentation I suppose, but I was just trading informal meanderings with de Bivort.
    >On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 07:55 PM, Bruce Edmonds wrote:
    >>Dear memetics list subscribers,
    >>I the situation Re: Iraq etc. is important, but this list is not the place
    >>for a general political discussion. If the volume of posts not about
    >>memetics continues I will be forced to filter out mail not about memetics.
    >> So far I have never been forced to take such action and it goes deeply
    >>against my instincts - I prefer voluntary action.
    >>Thank you.
    >>Bruce Edmonds
    >>Centre for Policy Modelling
    >>Manchester Metropolitan University
    >>Aytoun Building, Aytoun Street, Manchester M1 3GH, UK.
    >>Tel. +161 247 6479 Fax. +161 247 6802

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