Date: Fri 13 Dec 2002 - 19:33:32 GMT
> At 10:17 PM 11/12/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >In Praise of Bin Laden
> >Some Saudi Schools Teach Students to Hate the U.S., Love Osama
> >Reporter's Notebook
> >By Jim Sciutto
> >Dec. 10
> >— The Saudi government insists religious extremism is not sanctioned
> >in the kingdom, and that it's not taught in schools. But it is easy
> >to find teachers who speak out against the United States with a
> >surprisingly deep hatred — a sentiment many are passing on to their
> This is a perfect example of what I have been talking about Joe. They
> think that you are evil and you think that they are.
I read their instruction manual (the Qu'ran), looked at their actions and listened to their words. That provided evidence, and proof, enough of their malevolent intentions vis-a-vis all infidels and their eagerness to manifest them into action.
> What I am
> suggesting is that you both speak from the perspective of your own
> meme-team and therefore find it impossible to see the validity of the
> other's perspective.
What validity can there be in a perspective that mandates that the faithful must either convert or kill the infidel to a system at odds with science, logic and freedom? Its very flaws force it to resort to violent and virulent coercion , for logical and evidentiary persuasion work agaist it. To, in the face of all this, equate Radical Islam democracy and science is to engage in a relativism of the most blind and clueless sort.
>The problem, when communicating with myopic
> fundies of any denomination, is that each example discussed is treated
> as an attack on the meme-team's territory. It is therefore stoutly
> defended. As an example of this (not an attack on USAnia Joe) is that
> you intimate that revenge killing is evidence of the
> badness of 'Islamofacists', yet you accept that some civilians will be
> casualties of a US lead 'war on terror' (an oxymoron).
The difference that I have explained to you before, but which you conveniently keep forgetting, is that the PURPOSE and INTENT of the 9/11 attacks was to kill as many people as possible, regardless of their military or civilian standing, regardless of their intent or cluelessness, regardless of anything. When the US responded by pursuing the planners, trainers and financers of these attacks, and their protectors, to their home base, the civilians killed were ACCIDENTAL, not INTENTIONAL. And when the Taliban and Al Quaeda were driven from power in Afghanistan, the people of that country danced in the streets of Kabul. When the terror flyers struck those people-filled buildings with hikacked people-filled airliners, the only dancing in the street that occurred was in several Muslim nations. And those Saudi teachers actually attempted to justify the 9/11 action by illogically pointing to the collateral deaths in Afghanistan, even though those happened AFTER the 9/11 attack; revenge cannot logically precede an act for which it claims to be revenge.
> Oh BTW Japanese
> schools have just recently included some negative reports on the
> subject of WW2 and the invasion of China,
And the hue and cry is massive.
> Australian schools have
> recently included Aboriginal massacres,
And the hue and cry is massive
> some USAnian schools teach
Every time the fundies try to do this, they are successfuly challenged in court.
>Tell me Joe, are there any teachers in the US who have a
> hatred of Arabs,
The (reciprocal) hatred is of Radical Islam as a terrorist ideology which hates, and strives to convert or kill, all infidels, especially those in the US. Many Arabs are not Muslim, and most are not Radical Muslim, while many non-Arabs ARE radical Muslim. To equate the two is racist.
> or who would infect children with other damaging
> memes. What I want to find out is, is there a difference between
> someone who hates Islam and someone who hates the US, and is the
> difference 'real' or memetic. Cheers Jeremy
Most US people do not hate the entire religion, but the virulent Wahhabist mutation that has given rise to the contemporary global terrorism that is occurring. Any sane and freedom, science and democracy-loving human being would share this distaste, because it desires to take those thinge from them under pain of death. The difference is that the people who are allied with that terrorist cult hate the US precisely because it is the greatest world power that is NOT governmentally Muslim and ruled by Shar'ia law; they view it therefore as the target that Allah would wish them to terroristically concentrate upon. The difference is both memetic and real, because the human consequences of embracing and attempting to reify one memeset or the other are so drastically different in the real world.
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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