To Wade, Re: New uses for old artifacts

From: Van oost Kenneth (
Date: Mon 09 Dec 2002 - 10:26:24 GMT

  • Next message: Jeremy Bradley: "RE: Why Europe is so Contrary"

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wade Smith" <>
    > On the other hand, 'mental replicators' still seems, to me, to be a
    > nonsense phrase.

    Something of interest Wade !?

    Mental Conditions,

    Wim De Muijnck got his PhD. upon Dependencies, Connections and other Relations. A theory of mental causation.

    He concludes that mental conditions are more than merely states of the brain.

    What are mental conditions !?

        Suppose, it rains and in order not to get wet you decide to take an umbrella. Your conviction that rain makes you wet and the will not to get wet in the first place we call a mental condition. My thesis upholds the very nature of such mental conditions. Standard we conceive them as states of the brain, as structures of grey cells and neurons. Such a state people call thus mental. The material neurons do give eventually a signal to the hand to reach for the umbrella.

    No problem surely !?

        The problem with the standard conception is that mental conditions do have all sorts of characteristics, such as truth, which don 't fit with states of the brain. A conviction is true or false, but you can 't say that about a state of where the brain is supposingly in. So, mental conditions aren 't the same as those states. That is also due by experiences out of the past, which do influence mental conditions like convictions, in the present. I try to grasp how mental facts ( the fact that I do think or the fact that I do want something) can have a material bias and be in the same token more than just matter on the move. To move from the material reality towards mental conditions, you only need to add a ' sparkle ' of soul into the equation.

    How is it than possible that mental conditions are the cause of moving my hand !?

        That depends on what you understand and defines under as a cause ! If you scrutinize rooted pre- conceptions about causes than you discover that the push and pull- notion don 't tells you the whole of the story. First_ a cause always can be thwarted by circumstances. Those are due to some situations which occured in the past. The past thus plays its part in the cause occuring today. Furthermore_ actions are not the same as movements. The point to make is to understand that causes can occur on a multi- level.

    A mental condition which causes an action is thus not the same as the one which causes a movement. Take for example a game of tennis. If you simply describe the movements of the ball and players, than you forget the contribution of the rules. Apparently, tennis is thus more than just making ' tennis- movements ', like mental conditions are more than just merely states of the brain !

    Eveline Steenbrinck FM November 2002 Translated out of Dutch by KVO, december 2002

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Mon 09 Dec 2002 - 10:11:01 GMT