Date: Sun 08 Dec 2002 - 20:44:57 GMT
> > >> > Snip......Grant:
> > >> >> for example, seems to mark the begining and end of the
> > >> >> dynosaurs. Mitocondrial eve marks the beginning of mankind.
> > >> >> This way of looking at the universe seems so engrained in our
> > >> >> nature that it must occupy some deeper place in our makeup
> > >> >> than a cultural meme.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Grant
> > >> >>
> > >> > I don't think so Grant cos some cultures, mostly ones that we
> > >> > have defeated, had achieved stability and sustainability within
> > >> > their environments. These folk view 'development' as
> > >> > undesirable or bad. For them harmony with the nature that they
> > >> > found themselves in was the primary goal of existence. In all
> > >> > cases that I have found, such cultures have narrative
> > >> > patterning and content which predicates this cultural 'norm'.
> > >> > That's the short answer. Jeremy
> > >>
> > >> Not many cultures that I am aware of have achieved this stability
> > >> with their environment, unless you include the possibility of
> > >> 'die back' when things are scarce. Most cultures expand to the
> > >> extent of their resources. If Hitler was not aware of this we
> > >> would have been spared WWII.
> > >>
> > >Other examples of enviromnetally suicidal indigenous tribes are the
> > >ancient Easter Islanders and the Anasazi indians of the American
> > >southwest. It is a meme and a myth, kinda like the old 'noble
> > >savage', 'ancient sage' saw, that older cultures were always wiser.
> > >>
> >Look Joe, I know that I am a devout environmentalist but the only
> >culture that I am aware of which could be described as
> >"environmentally suicidal" is our modern industrial one. Just to
> >touch the edges, if the 'developing nations' were to 'develop' to the
> >stage that the affluent West has it would cost us another three
> >planets worth of resources, and the pollution would have killed us
> >long before that anyway. Peace, simplicity, and environmental care
> >are what we need for sustainability. If we could achieve those goals
> >I would say that we had reached a highly evolved state. Only low
> >animals foul their surroundings and waste their resources Joe. I am
> >not saying, "older cultures were always wiser". What I am saying is
> >that it is a meme and a myth that newer cultures are always wiser.
> Hunters and gatherers where necessarily kinder to their environment
> than industrialists. But archiologists and anthropologists have
> traced the extinction of many large animals to the same time in the
> past that humans showed up on the shores of a continent. This
> includes australia, which stayed H&G until Europeans came along. When
> there were relatively few humans on earth their impact was bound to be
> less. The more of us there are, the greater our impact is going to
> be. The only way we can go back to lessening that impact is to reduce
> our numbers. If we don't do it voluntarily, the earth will do it for
> us by becoming unlivable. As we continue to foul the air, the water
> and the land by our large numbers and voracious appetite for animals,
> minerals and power, our world cannot help but change in response.
> Look at how much it has changed in just the last 100 years.
Yep, pollution (including ozone layer depletion and global warming), natural resource depletion (including deforestation) and species diversity loss all have as their common denominator human overpopulation. Until this root cause is responsibly addressed, we will be stuck with its disastrous effects.
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For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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