Re: Fw: Why Europe is so Contrary ( joe 1)

From: Van oost Kenneth (
Date: Sun 08 Dec 2002 - 11:52:56 GMT

  • Next message: Van oost Kenneth: "Re: Fw: Why Europe is so Contrary (joe 2)"

    > > I forsee there a great deal of
    > > > trouble arising in your midst, if the US government won 't deal with
    > > > that a kind of situation. Or is that one/ the reason why the US
    > > > intervenes so happily abroad, to elude its people from what is
    > > > really happening internal !? After all, a good president is often
    > > > seen as one who has a strong foreign policy.... strange !!
    > >
    > The US has a responsibility and obligation, as the world's one
    > remaining superpower, to assist in stabilizing the global situation. This
    > position is urged upon the US by the selfsame people who complain
    > about it, and it is acknowledged by most US citizens as a necessity
    < thrust upon it by its pre- eminent position in the world.

    Joe, Out of the all the good arguments / comments and answers from you, for the sake of the list, I distilled two, IMO, hard evidence why we in Europe are so contrary ! The above is the first in our memetic war...

    IMO, this is a complete mis- conception on your part, you make it sound like it is the US is own natural virtue to stabilize the worlds situation. Virtue is a value which someone has made his own, and only in the virtue the value gets its meaning. From this on the US/ its foreign policy ( and that is of what we are upset about, we ain 't got trouble with the American people as such) sets its own demands and its very own expactations on a very high level indeed. This is a ' belief ' ! This can in a sense come together in two things, 1- there is no longer a normalizition and freedom gets in and 2- but, it can also lead to an extreme case of political corectness in thought and behavior. And IMO, the latter is the thing where the US swings by...

    And that ain 't something real, like you said, it is an idea. It is the idea ' of being American ' that plays tricks on you, ( or like the chauvinistic thing plays tricks with the French, or like the über- mensch - thing plays tricks with the German), you are being yourself and you express this in many ways, but in the same way, you get very easily upset, you are very sensible. Your feeling of self- esteem is huge, that is an American trait, proposed as like in the declariation of the Union. There is nothing wrong with such a feeling though, as long that selfrespect don 't grow into unassailbleness. If it does, like it did IMO, than you get in trouble if something like ' dependents ' comes along.

    The thing to mention is that not only disasters can break the picture you have of yourself but far most you depend on what ' the others ' have to say or do ! I don 't reproach you anything, it is just an ascertainty, but it just in the ways you try to express yourself, or in the ways the US tries to proove to itself its own high amount of self- esteem that we see things where we get upset about. That image you drag along of unassailbleness creates for us a certain amount of tention, by which the sensibility of the other his/ her behavior increases_ and that works both ways !

    The US, in a sense makes itself ' beautiful ', its own obligation, its ne- cessity to stabilize, to indulge democracy, freedom and human rights upon others, makes it beautiful, it makes you shine ! But you use, " beauty " as a power, as a force in the real sense of the word. Not all what is ' Beautiful ", what is ' Clean ' and ' Upright ' is true, it only " Blinds "_ and that is what the US does, it dazzles, not us, but itself !

    IMO, the position that is urged upon the US is only done partly by the people who complain about it, you are always the half a whole and in this case, you have to think about the thrusted part of your so- called pre- eminent position in the world. It is not that the US is the last remaining superpower that automatically you have to take the world upon your shoulders. Ferrari is maybe everybody's dreamcar, but that doesn 't mean the brand has to drag to automobilebusiness out of its misery.

    The US is biting more off that it can chew, you're taking on res- ponsibilities you can 't handle, that ain 't something you easily can dismiss, it is what you ARE, and you have to understand that others are not willing, by choosing or otherwise, can 't cope with that kind of fact, likewise you have to understand that people are willing to fight what, from there perspective, is their own in their own legitimate right.

    This a memetic war, and unless the US is willing to acknowledge that others have opposite ideas as to their own and are willing to fight to defend those, I fear for your safety. What the Muslim world fears most is enlarged in what the US stands for, and that is one reason they attack you, and not, not yet anyway, I do understand this, us...Europe. It is not a clear case who is actually " contrary ", it is a case of who is willing to set its own memes aside_ Europe is not, yet hooked on the terrorism- meme, and I hope this stays that way. Out of a sense of isolation, like Lawry mentioned earlier, out of that sense of unassailableness you have to come up, for yourself, with the
    ' why ' of all of this. The American, memetic model has indeed problems.

    The US is not pragmatic about itself, where IMO it is for others. It is willing to set things straight where freedom and democracy fails, but the US is not willing to let go of philosophical arguments like " truth " even those can 't proove themselves out there in reality. ( James)

    Many regards,


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