RE: Why Europe is so Contrary

From: Jeremy Bradley (
Date: Sun 08 Dec 2002 - 08:58:57 GMT

  • Next message: Jeremy Bradley: "RE: Why Europe is so Contrary"

    At 01:23 AM 8/12/02 +0000, you wrote:
    >> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 21:46:02 +1100
    >> From: Jeremy Bradley <>
    >> Subject:
    >> SNIP.......Steve:
    >>> Also,implicit in your statement seems to be the idea that social evolution
    >> has a
    >>> destination? Society changes, and good or ill are relative to the
    society of
    >>> the observer.
    >>> Regards
    >>> Steve.
    >> Jeremy:......... Hi Steve
    >> In my study of narrative form I developed a theory that the linear
    >> rhetorical form of outcome based narratives, such as we all grew up with,
    >> normalise the notion that outcomes and destinations are the inevitable
    >> result of existence.
    >The notion you talk about would appear to be correct for any society
    Jeremy's reply: The 'goal' of many pre-colonisation peoples was to maintain a status-quo. This is discernible in their narrative patterning. Australian narratives were cyclical, like their notion of time. A story typically starts with locating the story in the land, language and the people, thereby establishing the status-quo. It then moves to the problem. A solution is found with the assistance of nature, magic or a 'spirit' intervention. And the status-quo is thus restored (apologies for the simplification). As you can see this is significantly different to our traditional narrative structure.

    >> Jeremy........cont.:
    In my memetics, subtle cultural notions such as these are part of a coded
    >> sets of information ( culture memes which form a complete 'strand', or
    >> cneme, for want of a better word) which constrains the production of
    >> culture so that evolution can't happen outside of previously set
    >> It is the 'cenemes', of which I have only mentioned one, which make memes
    >> appear to be good or bad to different peoples (as our current case-study
    >> clearly shows).
    >> Like the mapping of the human genome, the mapping of a cultural cneme is
    >> possible through the analysis of the most enduring elements of that culture
    >> - - its narratives and their form.
    >> 'owzat Steve?
    >> Jeremy

    >I don't have any qualms as such, I just tend to note when people tend to
    >ascribe a direction to evolution. It occurs (evolution), and only humans
    >ascribe good or ill (and a direction) to it.
    >Not a cricket fan thank god:-) and I hope I've faired better!
    Jeremy: The Australian Estuarine Crocodile has existed, in its present form for at least 50,000,000 years. The toxic ticks that I catch for anti-vemom are the most dangerous animal in Australia and have been unchanged for longer. Both of these animals are perfectly adapted for what they do. I therefore suggest to you that the process of evolution is not ongoing. IMO it stops at some stage, perfect adaptation. In the case of pre-invasion indigenous Australian societies, that stage of cultural evolution arguably arrived many millennia before our forebears emerged from their caves; let alone before they ceased to be ruled by inbred, syphilitic, drunken, war-lords with a desire to consume the possessions of others. IMO colonising Europeans were the true uncivilised savages. The very fact that our linear cultures are still evolving is evidence of their inferiority. (controversial stuff eh Steve) I'm not a great cricket fan either and I didn't mean to rub any salt into the wounds caused by the unmerciful flogging of your National team in its latest foray to the antipodes.
    ;~) Jeremy

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun 08 Dec 2002 - 09:34:15 GMT