RE: Why Europe is so Contrary

From: Steve Drew (
Date: Sun 08 Dec 2002 - 01:31:40 GMT

  • Next message: Steve Drew: "RE: Why Europe is so Contrary"

    > Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:07:00 -0500
    > From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <>
    > Subject: RE: Why Europe is so Contrary
    > Good morning, Steve,
    > Society has a direction...
    > Yes, I do believe this is true, at a most fundamental systemic level. As I
    > see it, it is a direction toward higher levels of capability, and it
    > operates throughout our species. The argumentations within our species
    > often have little to do with it, and so the dynamics of this large impulse
    > are all too often compromised by the smaller goals of sub-parts of the
    > species.
    > I do not mean this in any theological or teleological sense: it is, at least
    > and sufficiently, a result of our past evolutionary dynamics. But I will
    > say also that even if it weren't something 'natural', we would want it to be
    > so, for I can think of no goal more interesting than to see how 'good' our
    > species can become.

    My point was that to ascribe a direction to human evolution is to imply some sort of purpose. Human evolution itself is neither good nor bad but is. From an evolutionary point of view, the system that produces the most number of humans, and that they can reproduce with equal fecundity is all that counts. The goal of 'goodness' is one for memetics in how it relates to the former, but it is not some absolute.
    > Best regards,
    > Lawry
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: []On Behalf
    >> Of Steve Drew
    >> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 3:07 AM
    >> To:
    >> Subject: RE: Why Europe is so Contrary
    >>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:30:42 -0500
    >>> From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <>
    >>> Subject: RE: Why Europe is so Contrary
    >> snip
    >>> Last, uh, 60 years: stopping Hitler and the Internet. Both profoundly
    >>> helpful to the processes of human civilization, the first
    >> stopping a regime
    >>> that would have frozen social evolution, and the latter providing the
    >>> healthiest of tools with which to activate the world's variety.
    >> The latter
    >>> opens an extraordinary door; now, of course, we have to figure
    >> out how to
    >>> walk through it.
    >> Changed rather than frozen would be my description. The mere act
    >> of opposing
    >> Hitler, whether overt or covert, drew disparate peoples together in the
    >> territories occupied by the Nazis and hence produced some change. Also,
    >> implicit in your statement seems to be the idea that social
    >> evolution has a
    >> destination? Society changes, and good or ill are relative to the
    >> society of
    >> the observer.
    >> Regards
    >> Steve.



    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun 08 Dec 2002 - 01:34:48 GMT