Date: Wed 04 Dec 2002 - 19:25:52 GMT
> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 20:23:12 -0500
> From: Ray Recchia <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Subject: Re: Complexity and Memetics
> At 11:35 AM 12/3/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> >Hello memetics list,
> >My name is Sam Rose. I'm an independent researcher of Complex
> >Adaptive Systems, memetics, futures studies, and media ecology. I've
> >spent the last couple of years studying the BIO-PSYCHO-SOCIAL
> >emergent, cyclical levels of existence (ECLET) theories of Dr Clare W
> >Graves and it's spin
> >off theories. I haven't had the chance to comb through all of the
> >archives yet, but I was hoping to strike up a dialogue here relating
> >complexity to memetics.
> >So far, my only exposure to memetics has been through Aaron Lynch's
> >"Thought Contagion" Robert Aunger's "Darwinizing Culture" and "The
> >Electric Meme" (still reading electric meme now). If anyone can
> >recommend any other work, feel free to do so.
> I have some ideas that I'd like to toss at someone who has a good
> grasp of the concepts in 'The Origins of Order' by Stuart Kauffman.
> More complexity related than memetically related but I've been
> wrestling with it for over a year now. In the same vein you might
> look at 'The Major Transitions in
> Evolution' by John Maynard Smith and Eors Szathmary.
> A very good book on culture in animals is 'The Imitation Factor' by
> Lee Alan Dugatkin
> (Sam): Thanks for the recommendations. I am working my way through
> Thomas Kuhn, Robert Aunger, and a Douglas Rushkoff book right now.
You might also check out: Complexity and Postmodernism: Understanding Complex Systems by Paul Cilliers
both by John H. Holland, as well as another book by Stuart Kaufmann:
AT HOME IN THE UNIVERSE
> >I am most interested now in understanding how memes work into self
> >sustaining non-linear systems. The self-assembly of memes seems to
> >reflect the behavior of "strange attractors" in CAS theory. The self
> >replication and non-linear transmission of memes seems to be an
> >integral part of biological, psychological, and social systems. I
> >CAS and memetics can help us understand why a system may "break down"
> > and reassemble into separate systems under certain conditions.
> >This can
> >often be seen on internet mailing lists that discuss theories dealing
> > with human social interaction systems in real time, like memetics.
> >To discuss something like memetics, we may want or need to use
> >current events in order to test or models, theories and hypothesis.
> >These discussions are self sustaining until a global event happens
> >and is brought into the system that causes some degree of dissonance.
> >Most of the participants in the online discussion group are also
> >part of larger systems. Global events seem to both generate and
> >activate memes within individuals. If the paradigms those memes are
> >tied to are drastically different for individuals who make up a
> >then the system may break down and reassemble into two or more new
> >systems, though they may still exist within the same environment (an
> >internet discussion list, for instance). One theory says that this
> >"dissonance" is caused by collections of memes, or "meta-memes" that
> >make up an individual and group complex adaptive system.(that theory
> >spiral dynamics see: www.spiraldynmamics.com) It seems there is a
> >cultural/social view, a psychological view, and a biological/genetic
> >view into these types of systems. Internet subcultures like
> >discussion groups and lists seem to be more vulnerable to the break
> >down of self sustenance than face to face relationships. At the same
> >time they can be valuable learning tools, and information can be
> >shared more efficiently, and a broader base can be observed than in
> >face to face type relationship systems.
> This seems to be a very accurate description of what happened on this
> list recently when the topics of Islam and The War on Iraq came up.
> Certain people on the list have drastically different paradigms
> relating to these issues and if you over back posting for the last
> month or so you will see how the list temporarily became dominated by
> discussion on those issues.
> While you indicate that such discussion can be useful for memetics, I
> would argue that they are useful not for their content but solely for
> their ability to demonstrate the sorts of concepts you have described.
> I might suggest that for that reason we avoid those topics here but
> that would we could benefit from examining their impact on other
> discussion groups.
> (Sam): I agree. It would be a bad idea to dissect our own discussion.
> I am more interested in talking about how memetics relates to
> complexity, and complex adaptive systems, how it relates to media
> ecology, and how it will relate to Clare W Graves ECLET theory.
> >Anyway, I am interested in creating dialogue about these things. Any
> >suggestions, clarifications, corrections, admonishments, brow
> >or compliments are welcome.
> >Sam Rose
> >Founding Member
> >The Billions of Minds Project
> Out of curiosity are you doing this research as grad student, PhD, or
> a guy with a non related job who just happens to be interested in this
> stuff. I qualify as the third myself, although I have a graduate
> (Sam): it s kind of the third, except that I am trying to create a
> research entity as well with several people from multiple fields
> curently advising me on the different aspects of ding something like
> this. Previously, I published a print magzine
> (www.zerohour.net/paralleljounal) and I currenly also work as a
> musician (see: www.wanderjahrmusic.com).
> Take Care (and thanks for the welcome, Lawrence)
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
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