Fw: Why Europe is so Contrary ( joe 1)

From: Van oost Kenneth (kennethvanoost@belgacom.net)
Date: Tue 03 Dec 2002 - 20:43:38 GMT

  • Next message: Van oost Kenneth: "Fw: Why Europe is so Contrary (joe 2)"

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Van oost Kenneth" <kennethvanoost@belgacom.net> To: "memetics" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk> Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 5:39 PM Subject: Re: Why Europe is so Contrary

    > Kenneth,
    > > > Here I hear thru ' what I dislike most, the voice of thinking in
    > > > superior levels ! Those tendencies are part of my culture, of my
    > > > history, of my being and for one I am proud of them ! Yes, I am ! Let
    > > > me explain, before one says again I talk crap, In Europe we have a
    > > > Spanish solution, a German proposition, a French opposition to one
    > > > others its proposal_ all of which are biased within the country its
    > > > own psychological, social, cultural,... tradition, all of which with
    > > > their own specific traits, tricks and habits. It makes us what we are!
    > Joe,
    > > It also means that Europe is too busy occupied with internecine
    > > disagreements to be able to cooperate in the face of common threats
    > > and dangers (and thus has depended upon the US to deal with them for
    > > it). A system cannot protect and preserve its people or their way of
    > > if it is impotent to guard them against either external or internal
    > > hazards. We saw all too fully the german 'Final Solution' imposed upon
    > > the rest of Europe, and with Italy's help.
    > I am personal all for a strong Europe, if not in words than in deeds and
    > respect the unification of Europe along its economical axes is maybe a
    > thing but it doesn 't bring the peoples all together. Cultural and all we
    > are to damned different to live as one single nation.
    > As for the German bit, the rest of Europe made a mess about the legacy
    > of WWI, in a sense Germany had no other option than to go to war again,
    > but that is all history.
    > I am not that concerned about the ways Europe settles its conflicts, I am
    > more concerned about the fact that Americans had a view that is IMO what
    > blurded. After 9/ 11 it struck me to see that for instance CNN always blew
    > high of the US tower, but never went deeper. It was a show, a scam !
    > Now, Bush allowed, under pressure no doubt, that a committy will inves-
    > tigate the role of its own policy and the role of the CIA.
    > Hannad Arendt called this ' redraw of information ' and that is what
    > ned over the last decades in the US, specific about the US foreign policy.
    > In such ways there is a " conscience- narrowing ", it becomes them against
    > us, because the role of the " we " is never shown to the public_ it
    > a Cold War.
    > Why should the US, like Kaplan wrote, like Roosevelt intented, even still
    > border to ' protect ' Europe if there isn 't any gain in such an attempt
    > Europe, seen from US eyes was just there as a buffer to the Sovjet Union_
    > in a way of being an economical outlet for its products.
    > IIRC, the US came in WWI just out of economical reasons, the German
    > U- boats sank to much of its ships, conveying towards Europe with food
    > and weapons. There is much to say about the political truth.....
    > And why did the US order to set foot in Normandia, the US was attacked
    > by Japan at Pearl Harbor, there was no given reason to go that far as
    > ders and the Rhine, if not " self- interest "....
    > Joe,
    > > Actually, when a state has an idea that is passed into law via
    > > or public referendum and it is both good and works, the other states sit
    > > up and take notice and movements begin in them to do the same, and
    > > the federal government more often than not follows. This is a strength
    > > of the US system; individual states are laboratories for ideas. I see
    > this
    > > happening to a certain degree in your new EU, also. But the US has
    > > had the advantage of a common language and history (although the
    > > former is weakening herewith the influx of many Spanish speakers), just
    > > as it is strengthening in Europe with the increasing ubiquity of the
    > > English language there.
    > That is a kind of mistery to me though, how will the US (re)act upon that
    > fact !? I understand that now already 60 % of Florida is of Spanish-
    > speaking origin, how will this reflect in political power !? How is this
    > translated
    > in economical power !? Does they have the same rights !? How high are the
    > criminal figures !? Comparable to those of the Black community !?
    > I forsee there a great deal of trouble arising in your mids, if the US
    > government won 't deal with that a kind of situation. Or is that one/ the
    > reason
    > why the US intervenes so happily abroad, to elude its people from what is
    > really
    > happening internal !? After all, a good president is often seen as one who
    > has a strong foreign policy.... strange !!
    > France is a country to watch with some
    > > trepidation, though; not since Moorish Spain has a country contained
    > > such a substantial Muslim minority, and it has only been the degree of
    > > Francophile chauvinism there that has kept them on course (for
    > > instance, their laws against Muslim militants are stricter than, for
    > > instance, Britain's).
    > Hm, another explanation can be given though !
    > France has as many Muslims in is mids than Britain has Hindus, those
    > are two complete different peoples. The Muslim minority is shacked up
    > in ' les faubourgs ', Sovjet style appartment blocks, no green, no
    > tives, no future_ they are the decendents of people expelled from Algeria,
    > no real French citizens, not really Algerians either...a stricter
    > enforcement
    > is needed to control ciminality and abuse... comparable to what I wrote
    > above about Florida and the Black community...
    > On the other hand, Hindus from India and Pakistan had, in most cases,
    > family, relatives and friends who made the trip to England ealier on.
    > Both cases are IMO not comparable at all...
    > Like in Germany, where an estimated 4 million Turks live. Those are
    > like the Hindus in England, the ' problem- people ' so to speak are the
    > Easies...
    > Kenneth,
    > > > The Marroccans you talked about make up 60 % of the population
    > > > in that kind of neighbourhood where the riots began.
    > > > I understand their frustration, no work, no money and eons of time on
    > > > their hands, no future, no real perspective and than one gets shot by
    > > > a psychogical nutcase. They see it, and the Maroccans are keen on
    > > > that, as a racistic attack and induced by the words of AEL they went
    > > > to the streets. But they are Muslims and very radical indeed, the
    > > > words pronounced in the mosque don 't leave any doubt, but on the
    > > > horizon there were also words of reconciliation, dialogue and
    > > > friendship. I base my verdict on those.
    > Joe,
    > > It self-servingly plays into the Rasical Islamists' hands for them to
    > > portray that murder as racist, when it seems to have been the work of a
    > > looney involved in a neighborhood dispute. They desire the double
    > > standard right to kill anyone they proclaim as having slandered Islam,
    > > while promising bloody and self-righteous riots if any one else should
    > > dare to do the same to one of their Ummah, whether the motivation is
    > > religious, ethnic, or neither. In other words, y'all have a real
    > on
    > > your hands.
    > Hm, not with the Turks, Algerians and others, but solely with the
    > Marroccans!
    > Not only in Antwerp but also in Brussels and elsewhere those are the most
    > violent bunch of immigrants we have.
    > I said this before on this list, those are comparable to what happened to
    > the
    > Algerians in France with the difference the Marroccans came here out of
    > economical reasons but never found there ways, like the Italians did in
    > mines for instance.
    > There is also a kind of obscure mentality hidden in the Marroccan, a kind
    > of backlach, a defense mechanism as it were, of saying that any ' attack '
    > is out of racistic reasons_ when a young guy of 18 is shot death by the
    > police while trying to escape a control, driving in a stolen car with a
    > weapon on his knees_ if than this is a racistic attack, well I don 't
    > than there must be something wrong with their estimation of things, won 't
    > it !?
    > I tried to explain this once to someone involved in such problematic, but
    > the thing that it could be genetic, memetic related made him run away....

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