From: Scott Chase (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Wed 27 Nov 2002 - 03:10:12 GMT
>From: Jon Gilbert <email@example.com>
>Subject: Re: Why Europe is so Contrary
>Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:14:01 -0800
>Van oost Kenneth writes:
>>From that moment on, the whole set of what is the worlds reality made
>>room from only one memeset, that of America. Oh, but that process
>>is since a long time underway, though, from the moment on the US was
>>founded, Americans made for themselves clear that upon their religious
>>bias of creatonism they will make the world a better place.
>>And that notion works thru' everything you do, you want still to
>>create, the US wants to create a world according to its own old
>>fashion religious views and the US can't stand that other peoples
>>are not that keen on that prospect.
>>God Bless America is one of the US its
>>religious tokens. The US have made God subordinate to the
>>American constitution_ America's belief in its own destiny
>>is written within its own constitution, there is no seperation
>>of religion and politics like in any other lay- nation in Europe,
>>you simply have given god a legal place in your mids.
>>Read the Koran and you will find that for Gods sake, America
>>is Mohammed own little paradise, everything what Islam stands
>>for can be found in America.... Ironic isn 't it that Americans
>>submit themselves to their constitution and in the same token
>>you fight a religion that has the same principle underneath !
>>The country itself was based by refugees who were prosecuted
>>and repressed by the ignorants of Europe.
>>The real difference and thus why, IMO Europe is so contrary
>>is that Americans submit themselves to the constitution which
>>is in my view totally religious biased, where in Europe the re-
>>ligious (f)actors were slowly removed and replaced by a more
>>The US still think that history is there to be made, and that is a
>>very dangerous evolution_ but that is also the only way along
>>which the US can develop if its hold on to its constitution....
>>If America continues it will not only loose itself but also Europe
>>will opposite in the end. Don 't loose the only friend you have....
>I think it is obvious that Kenneth here has never actually lived in the
>United States. If he had, then he would have realized that there is no "one
>memeset of America" as he puts it. The U.S. is as plural as any nation can
>possibly be, with regards to the number of different religions,
>ethnicities, and memes that are present here. Ride the city bus in Los
>Angeles or the subway in New York.
>I'm an American; I think our foreign policy is fucked up, and we should not
>be trying to inflict "democracy" ("corporatocracy" is really a better word
>for it) on the peoples of the earth. What we have is nothing like democracy
>as originally in ancient Greece, for instance. Not that their slave-based,
>misogynistic culture was much of a democracy. But that's besides the point.
>The point is, the President who is currently in power was NOT elected by
>popular vote. He is only in office because of what was essentially a coup.
>Bush received less than half of the popular vote and, as you may know, is
>only in power due to a very dubious vote in Florida. The only reason that
>this vote elected him was because of a very un-democratic system known as
>the "electoral college" in which a bunch of people vote for you in such a
>way that they do not represent your actual votes, but rather, only
>represent the voting majority from any particular state.
>For instance, half of Florida's voters voted for Gore, yet 100% of
>Florida's electoral college members voted for Bush. Obviously, something is
>severely FUCKED UP about that.
>And so, it is no surprise that the American government does not reflect the
>will of the American people, who are, for the most part, sympathetic with
>your criticisms of our false government -- in so far as they actually know
>anything, due to the fact that the media presents an overly-flattering and
>uncritical picture of America to us. I mean, after 9/11 especially, people
>grouped together in a patriotic fit of flag-waving that is very common in
>any nation that gets attacked. And of course, the media loves war, because
>then everybody watches the news and the newsmen have something to actually
>talk about instead of OJ Simpson or some rich girl that got kidnapped or
>Elian Gonzales or whatever other bullshit they think is so important.
>Unfortunately, the false government is using this new-found support to
>cause all kinds of wars and governmental changes that would never normally
>have happened. It's like they have free advertising and a free license to
>do heinous crap.
>As much as I agree with Joe that there are certain belief systems in the
>world, such as Islamic fundamentalism, that are ignorant and breed
>violence, I think that we ought to turn around and say, how is that any
>worse from the hundreds of thousands of people who die in car accidents?
>Who die from gang violence? Who die from lung cancer from cigarettes?
>Why don't we have a war to save the rain forests, instead of a war on
>terrorism? If there was a single alien microbe on Mars, then the government
>would spend billions of dollars to go fetch it with all kinds of crazy
>missions. If we discovered the presence of life anywhere on the moon, even
>if it was just an amoeba, it would be the greatest discovery of all time.
>Yet we allow species to be utterly wiped out, every day, in the rain
>forests as they are plowed and burnt to the ground.
>Or how about a war against global warming? I mean, no one is going to care
>about the World Trade Center getting blown up when NYC is 10 feet under
>water and there is nowhere to go skiing anymore except Antarctica.
>Islamic terrorism is just an excuse for militaristic, false leaders like
>Bush to justify creating things like the Dept. of Homeland Security, and to
>start new wars, so that they and their friends can feel important and get
>lots of money. It has nothing to do with the will of America or our
>constitution or what democracy is all about. Do you think Bush gives a fuck
>what happens anywhere outside of a six-foot radius around his person, and
>what happens in the next election? He's just an automaton.
>Lastly I shall conclude by saying that all of this is just what has been
>happening throughout history. "Carthage delenda est," remember? Or the
>Salem witch hunts? Or the Nazis?
>All you can do is wake up and separate yourself from the nonsense. If each
>person realizes that it is our individual choice not to pick up a gun and
>kill someone, that religions and newspapers don't mean shit, then maybe we
>can have some peace. That's why I respect the Refusenik movement, that's
>why I respect MLK and the civil rights movement of the sixties with
>peaceful demonstrations. The only one that you can change is yourself, but
>by doing so, then you send a ripple out across the surface of the memepool.
Well stated. I might not agree with you on everything, but that's the beauty of a secular democracy, that there's a spectrum of opinion and for the most part each has their say.
I didn't vote for Dubya. My guy won the popular vote, yet I accept that
Dubya's there til I can vote against him again. If Dubya wins again, good
Kenneth might not realize that we're supposed to have a separation of church
and state over here. The religious right may not like that idea very much,
but so be it. I have my own agnostic reservations about "one nation under
God" or "in God we trust", but don't lose any sleep over it. If Pat
Robertson or any of his ilk ever becomes president, that's when I start
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