RE: Islam and Europe and the Palestinians and the Left and the anti-American Lawry

From: joedees@bellsouth.net
Date: Sat 23 Nov 2002 - 22:59:06 GMT

  • Next message: Jeremy Bradley: "Re: Why Europe is so Contrary"

    > Joe, do you really think that wandering around accusing everybody of
    > being 'Jew-hating' innoculates you against the charge of
    > anti-Semitism? Guess again...
    >
    YOU display rampant antisemitism of the Jew-hating variety (which is the commonly understood meaning of the term) by discounting, disputing, dismissing or ignoring any datum that is not firmly within the anti-Israel camp; to you, the only Semites worthy of existence seem to be Palestinians. I think they should BOTH co-exist peacefully, but apparently this is not an option that resides within your worldview, as it does not reside in the worldviews of Hamas (Zeal), Hizbullah (Party of Allah) or Islamic Jihad (Islamic Struggle). And nothing can inoculate you against such charges of virulent memebotry, as you have demonstrated your infection through your own rhetoric.
    >
    > Re. your "quotes" -- when you provide the original sources and full
    > context, we will begin to take your factoid level of research more
    > seriously. Try again.
    >
    You hate the quotes, but they are valid. Tough turds if they puncture your preconceptions or piss off your filter. You provide nothing but venom. And that ain't valid.
    >
    > > -----Original Message-----
    > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On
    > > Behalf Of joedees@bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002
    > > 4:49 PM To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: RE: Islam and Europe and the
    > > Palestinians and the Left and the anti-American Lawry
    > >
    > >
    > > > Joe is at it again...now focusing his diatribe on the
    > > > Palestinians. The Palestinians, you see, in Joe's world, abandoned
    > > > their homes voluntarily. They were really happy, Joe will tell us,
    > > > to give their lands and homes and political existence to the
    > > > Israelis. There was of course no such thing as the Dar Yassin
    > > > massacres, in Joe's particular worldview. There was no such thing
    > > > as the refusal to allow the Palestinians to return to their
    > > > country or homes. In later emails, Joe will also probably tell us
    > > > that the Palestinians who did manage to remain in the territories
    > > > taken by Israel live as full citizens of Israel, and not as
    > > > second-class citizens, whose homes are subject to unilateral
    > > > forfeiture whenever Israel wants them. Really, when you get right
    > > > down to it in Joe's worldview, the Palestinians have no reason at
    > > > all to be waging a war against Israel. They are, Joe will tell us,
    > > > just plain old anti-Jewish and tools of the world-wide
    > > > cannibalistic memetic Muslim something or other...
    > > >
    > > Did you read the quotes I posted? If not, I will post them again
    > > for you. See if you can pass them through your Jew-hating memetic
    > > filters this time.
    > >
    > > "The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of
    > > the act of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish
    > > state. The Arab states agree upon this policy unanimously and they
    > > must share in the solution of the problem." Emile Ghoury,
    > > secretary of the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, in an interview
    > > with the Beirut Telegraph Sept. 6, 1948.
    > >
    > > "The Arab state which had encouraged the Palestine Arabs to
    > > leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the
    > > Arab invasion armies, have failed to keep their promise to help
    > > these refugees." The Jordanian daily newspaper Falastin, Feb. 19,
    > > 1949.
    > >
    > > "Who brought the Palestinians to Lebanon as refugees, suffering now
    > > from the malign attitude of newspapers and communal leaders, who
    > > have neither honor nor conscience? Who brought them over in dire
    > > straits and penniless, after they lost their honor? The Arab states,
    > > and Lebanon amongst them, did it." The Beirut Muslim weekly
    > > Kul-Shay, Aug. 19, 1951.
    > >
    > > "The 15th May, 1948, arrived ... On that day the mufti of
    > > Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country,
    > > because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their
    > > stead." The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, Oct. 12, 1963.
    > >
    > > "For the flight and fall of the other villages it is our leaders who
    > > are responsible because of their dissemination of rumors
    > > exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in
    > > order to inflame the Arabs ... By spreading rumors of Jewish
    > > atrocities, killings of women and children etc., they instilled fear
    > > and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled
    > > leaving their homes and properties to the enemy." The Jordanian
    > > daily newspaper Al Urdun, April 9, 1953.
    > >
    > > Actually, the Palestinians who stayed in Israel proper have been
    > > granted Israeli citizenship, and are allowed to vote in Israeli
    > > elections. The 700,000 Jewish refugees displaced by the surrounding
    > > Muslim countries were accepted into Israel, but the surrounding
    > > Muslim countries refused to settle the Palestinian Muslims within
    > > their borders. The two countries which have killed the most
    > > palestinians remain Jordan and Syria; Jordan killed 20,000 of them
    > > in one slaughter, more than Israel has killed in its entire
    > > existence. Where's your condemnation of THAT atrocity?
    > >
    > > I would dearly love to see a two-state solution with Israel and
    > > Palestine living side-by-side in peace and harmony, and sharing as
    > > their common capitol the internationalized city of Jerusalem.
    > > However, the Palestinian that negotiates such a settlement will be
    > > assassinated by elements of Hamas, Hizbullah, Islamic Jihad, Tanzim,
    > > the Al Aqsa Martyr's Brigade or some other indigenous Radical Muslim
    > > terror organization, much as Israel's Yitzhak Rabin, who was trying
    > > to do the same, was killed by a Jewish Zionist extremist.
    > > >
    > > > Now Joe will run off to his true-blue websites (the more anonymous
    > > > or bigoted or self-serving the better!) and conjure up another
    > > > round of bit extractions from reality, with which Joe populates
    > > > his worldview.
    > > >
    > > The websites I have pulled from include the New Yorker, the Atlantic
    > > Monthly, Foreign Affairs, Foreign Policy, Policy Review, MEMRI, etc.
    > > They are neither anonymous nor bigoted nor self-serving. And where
    > > does Lawry get documentation to support his vicious assertions
    > > against me and afainst anyone who would dispute his narrow-minded
    > > and propagandistic view? Of, that's right, he doesn't bother with
    > > such things at all, does he?
    > > >
    > > > > -----Original Message-----
    > > > > From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On
    > > > > Behalf Of joedees@bellsouth.net Sent: Saturday, November 23,
    > > > > 2002 4:06 PM To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk Subject: RE: Islam and
    > > > > Europe and Joe
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > > At 12:40 PM 23/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
    > > > > > >> At 12:37 PM 22/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
    > > > > > >> >
    > > > > > >> >Hi, Scott,
    > > > > > >> >By 'anti-Semitic' I mean bigoted against any or all
    > > > > > >> >Semitic races, including Arabs. Islam, being a religion,
    > > > > > >> >would not be included, though of course many Muslims are
    > > > > > >> >Arabs and vice versa. My experience of bigots is that
    > > > > > >> >their bigotry can swing around at anytime to attack anyone
    > > > > > >> >who is 'different,' so it should not bring much comfort to
    > > > > > >> >Jews - or anyone else - that Joe has so far focused his
    > > > > > >> >anti-Semitism on Arabs and Muslims.
    > > > > > >>
    > > > > > >> I think that we need to separate Zionism, (an aggressive
    > > > > > >> political position which supports the creation of the
    > > > > > >> Greater Israeli State, genocide and ethnic cleansing),
    > > > > > >> Judaism (the religion) and Jews (the Jewish people). The
    > > > > > >> area of land claimed by Zion is that which was 'given' to
    > > > > > >> Abraham and his descendants by his God in a 'vision'. I've
    > > > > > >> always thought that it was fairly suspect land deal (no
    > > > > > >> witnesses). See Gen. 15: 18-21. Personally I don't mind
    > > > > > >> Judaism or Jews but I think that the US backed Zionist
    > > > > > >> movement is the most dangerous political force in the World
    > > > > > >> today. <snip>
    > > > > > >>
    > > > > > >I must disagree with you, and so must most of the non-Muslim
    > > > > > >world. The most dangerous political force in the world today,
    > > > > > >wreaking havoc
    > > > > > > and terror across the globe from Bali to Kashmir to
    > > > > > > Jerusalem to New York, is undoubtedly the memeset of Radical
    > > > > > > Islam.
    > > > > > >>
    > > > > > Joe as I read it, even Osama was reacting against US/Israeli
    > > > > > persecution and expansionism.
    > > > > >
    > > > > Actually, what originally pissed him off was the Saudi family
    > > > > blowing off his offer for his four thousand (at the time)
    > > > > mujaheddin to defend Saudi Arabia in a jihad against Iraq before
    > > > > the start of the Gulf War twelve years ago, and instead bringing
    > > > > in the disgusting, hated, despised, Godless infidel unbeliever
    > > > > US to defend the holy Mecca and Medina, and sully the sacred
    > > > > soil of the Muslim Holy Sand. He used his other two points - the
    > > > > Palestinian situation and a later inverted sympathy for the very
    > > > > Iraq he offered to fight - as ways to sway gullible jihadist
    > > > > wannabees into making the commitment to join his terror army.
    > > > > >
    > > > > >I have not read anywhere that he was
    > > > > > attempting to convert the world to Islam - as you keep saying.
    > > > > > The requests from most of the Muslim world are as stated by Al
    > > > > > Baz in the piece that I sent you. If those four conditions
    > > > > > were met the Islamofasists, as you name them rightly, would
    > > > > > have no more support base than the KKK has in Christendom. The
    > > > > > problem is the aggressive Zionist expansionism.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > ===============================================================
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    > > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > =============================================================== This
    > > was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of
    > > Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For
    > > information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see:
    > > http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    > >
    >
    >
    >
    > ===============================================================
    > This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    > Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    > For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
    > see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
    >

    =============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit



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