Re: The terrorism meme

Date: Tue 19 Nov 2002 - 00:43:43 GMT

  • Next message: Grant Callaghan: "Re: Why Europe"

    > > Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:15:21 -0600
    > > From:
    > > Subject: Re: The terrorism meme
    > >
    > >> At 07:24 AM 17/11/02 -0800, you wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> SNIP..................Grant
    > >>> Yes, the problem do lie within us. It lies within the way we are
    > >>> creating the 21st century and a global economy that reaches out to
    > >>> everyone on the planet while they want to keep the world in the
    > >>> 14th century. We can't turn back time and evolution just for
    > >>> them. I suspect most muslims would rather participate in the new
    > >>> global culture but the people who control their religion are
    > >>> threatened by it.
    > >>
    > >> Ah Grant
    > >> I wanted to quit this strand, but you got me with this one. I have
    > >> been wanting to discus the 'might-is-right meme' for a while but
    > >> for some reason nobody wants to touch it. What we have here is a
    > >> little example of it. Who wants a 'global economy' dominated by
    > >> USAnian capital? You may 'suspect' Muslims would - but you won't
    > >> know unless you ask them, and they won't be able to answer you
    > >> because most of them wouldn't know what it means; I'm not too sure
    > >> that I do. You and other RIGHT (not intimating correct here) minded
    > >> people have assumed that you know what is best for others in the
    > >> world on the basis of - well I don't know really.
    > >>
    > > It is actually the Radical Muslims that are willing to force their
    > > 'divinely inspired' vision of what is best upon others. Radical
    > > Muslims can observe their asceticism in a Western culture, but
    > > Westerners cannot exercise their freedom in a Muslim culture. This
    > > is an excellent reason for me to oppose the universalization of
    > > shar'ia law throughout the globe.
    > I will grant an others freedom in the same respect he grants mine. So
    > I must oppose the excesses of the Sharia, the Torah and the Bible.
    I oppose the excesses of ALL religious faiths, but patriarchal monotheisms have historically been by far the greatest offenders.
    > >> You have no evidence that you are any more >> moral than the next
    > person other than a bunch of your fellow USAnians >> agree with you.
    > That does not make you RIGHT - and I do mean correct >> this time.
    > Your nation touts democracy but vetos or bullies the >> majority of
    > other nations in the UN so as to get 'outcomes beneficial >> to US
    > interests'. >> > Actually, removing that massive threat in the
    > volatile region is a > massively beneficial outcome for Europe, as
    > well. And they'll bitch and > moan about it all the way to
    > benefitting from it.
    > That doesn't answer the question of why u are right.
    Because the routing of Al Quaeda and the ousting of Saddam are both beneficial to the safety and security of the EU.
    > >> You demand democracy of other nations but imposes
    > >> globalisation without asking.
    > >>
    > > People and entities make import-export deals with other people and
    > > entities; private citizen to private citizen or corporation to
    > > corporation. People who do not want the benefits of free and open
    > > trade should just refuse to make the deals.
    > Please explain to me the import tariffs the US and The EU impose on
    > diverse goods ranging from steel to agriculture and then repeat the
    > above sentence.
    NAFTA and GATT have largely been US initiatives which have been opposed by some because the removal of trade barriers promotes globalization, which some see as detrimental to the cottage industries found in some developing nations because they can be undercut, and their workers driven into unemployment, by the unfettered foreign competition. The steel tariff was a blatantly political decision (hunting votes in the Rust Belt), and it will eventually be repudiated by the WTO.
    > >> >> You won't sign treaties on global >> justice,
    > climate change, chemical and biological weapons (I'd like to >> see
    > anyone try to get weapons inspectors into US stockpiles). >> > The US
    > should've signed onto the Kyoto Accords on Global Warming, > but a
    > laundry list of unrelated gripes with them provides no rationale for >
    > opposing the particular course of action. >> >> Then >> there is the
    > Marshal and Bikini Islanders and the previous residents >> of Diago
    > Garcea, I wont go on but there is more of these disgusting >>
    > atrocities and you know it so cut the high and mighty stuff! And the
    > >> only justification for the US jugganaut is the MIGHT-IS-RIGHT meme.
    > I >> just disagree with it, which doesn't make me bad, evil or wrong.
    > >> Jeremy >> > The US is the country that leaves when the job is done,
    > and sometimes, > as in Afghanistan post USSR retreat and in Haiti,
    > leaves too soon. It's > soldiers have died to feed Somalis, to save
    > the lives of Bosnians and > Kosovars, and to free Kuwaitis and
    > Afghanis, Muslims all. It has > released the occupied nations of
    > Japan, West Germany and the > Phillipines (among others) to their own
    > democratic governments and > administrations, rebuilt Europe and Japan
    > after it freed one and > defeated another, and gifted Panama with a
    > canal it had itself built. > More often than not, the US has exercised
    > its might attempting to SET > things right; attempts that have also
    > been, more often than not, heavily > solicited by their beneficiaries.
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