Re: Fw: An Individualistic Step

From: Kenneth Van Oost (
Date: Fri 15 Nov 2002 - 19:47:19 GMT

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    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Callaghan" <>
    > Most mammals are social animals that live in family groups and cooperate
    > with each other. Even predators such as lions and wolves. Chimps and
    > monkeys have a social order. Any animal that has a pecking order implies
    > they have the rudiments of a society of some kind. To assume they are all
    > individuals is to assume the opposite of what appears to be true in the
    > wild.

    I think you missed my point Grant ! My hypothesis is that sociality/ groups/ cooperation/ social order/ pecking order/... are the second step of the process, the initial ' natural ' order is since long gone ! That is to say, in the early days of what ever existed then there was no plural, no groups, only one- celluar organisms... everything evolved out of those, that is to say, out of individualism.. collectiviness/ groups/ etc evolved. What you say above are examples of already evolved ' individualistic' lineages.

    > I think it's a mistake to assume that social order and cooperation are the
    > exception rather than the rule.

    It would be if I putted it in such context, that is not the case, social order and cooperation are, according to Goulds proposal of the Full House, the second step, " the way up " of the process. That is of course what I see what the Full House implies if you turn things upside down. Social order and cooperation are not in my view exception to any rule, I just want to make you understand that what we know today as society, culture/ groups/ collectiviness/ togetherness/ etc all initial were individualis- tic.. in the words of Joe, less complex.

    I tried to connect this given to the origins of man, especially to the out of Africa- theory, that lacks a decent reason why we ever left the continent. I say, it was an individualistic step.



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