Re: Post-Saddam Iraq?

From: Van oost Kenneth (
Date: Mon 11 Nov 2002 - 21:00:41 GMT

  • Next message: Van oost Kenneth: "Re: Post-Saddam Iraq?"

    > The transition to freedom is not a sudden one, which is why the US will
    > have to engage in a protracted Marshall-Plan-type engagement with the
    > region. However, we should not treat these people as if they are
    > somehow genetically trapped in a cognitive childhood which cannot
    > learn to responsibly deal with democracy. Russia is learning, too; it
    > takes time, but it's worth it. At least Europe seems to think so; it's
    > form of government, too.

    Ah, now you are talking sense to me ! It is not Iraq itself but the whole region that the US has to provide with democratic principles, yes indeed ! Otherwise by removing Saddam the whole of the region will collapse once more in chaos if post- Saddam Iraq becomes a stable state. One's stability can jeapardize one's other.

    > .You cling onto democracy and you gonna bomb Iraq to proove your point, is
    > > it !?
    > I'm getting tired of this scurrilous canard. The US military plans are
    > specifically designed to concentrate on the Saddamic regime and avoid
    > the citizenry, whom we are trying to help.
    > The US argument is not with the people of Iraq; it is with Saddam
    > Hussein. Our proposed action would be to the great liberating benefit
    > of the vast majority of the oppressed Iraqi people. I'd like to put you
    > a room with about a dozen Iraqis with baseball bats and let you try to
    > explain to them that you believe that the US should not remove Saddam
    > from power because you do not believe that they could learn to handle
    > democracy.

    No Joe, it is not ridiculous at all, in matter of fact I am dead serious about our democratic principles ! Like we are condionated in democracy they are indoctrinated with fear of being killed ! Those twelve Iraqis would first control the room that it wasn 't bugged, than probably smash my head in yes, but the explaining will take a hack of a time ! And saying to them that Saddam will be removed would make them laugh, secretly....

    > >And yes, the Russian people embraced Stalin, and far more people
    > > than you realise are still doing it ! The Iraqi people and the
    > > Russians are in so a manner conditioned that they have not a single
    > > reaction left ! You have to re- learn, re-educate them the/ in basics
    > > of cultural/ social intercourse, something that completely is
    > > diseappered. Imposing the democratic highlights upon them after Saddam
    > > has been removed from power is perversive, you ain 't gonna give them
    > > any chance to develop their new born freedom/ culture on their own !
    > >
    > That's why it will take time; but it's time the US is willing to spend.

    I sincerely hope so, Joe ! Only the future will tell !

    > > And the same mechanism rules us, we got to impose democratic ruling
    > > upon those who lack it, that is in our blood ! But who says that is
    > > the right thing to do !?
    > You, actually think that fascist, communist or theocratic totalitarianism
    > better? For ANYONE? Puh-LEEEZE!

    No Joe, that is not what I meant ! I mean to say that people within such ideologies know no better ! The case gets worse when such political systems are due to democratic elections, like in pre- war Germany, but in a manner you got to respect the wishes of the people, no matter what !( Look what is happening right now in Italy....) For certain individuals, for some groups those systems were the best they ever will get, that other groups were to be left out of the picture can be seen as a result of darwinistic evolution, no !? So, Joe, what counts for nature, can you let it be counted for people !?


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