Re: Post-Saddam Iraq?

Date: Mon 11 Nov 2002 - 17:57:04 GMT

  • Next message: "RE: Post-Saddam Iraq?"

    > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > > > > From: <>
    > > You mean to tell me that their values are to embrace voiceless
    > > oppression under a dictatorial despot (Saddam) or a hardline mullah
    > > mafia (which the people of Iran are currently rebelling against)? I
    > > most sincerely doubt it. Democracy allows people both the freedom to
    > > choose for themselves what they value, and the freedom to attain it,
    > > provided that their goal does not interfere with the freedoms of
    > > other peoples. This is why democracies get along reasonably well
    > > together. We may have to educate people who have never experienced
    > > the freedom and voice granted them in a participatory democracy in
    > > the use of such benefits, but I have little doubt that they would
    > > come to appreciate it as much as the Japanese, although, like the
    > > Japanese, the form their democracy eventually will take will be
    > > influenced by their cultural values and history.
    > That is actually my point Joe ! How will the Iraqi people react on the
    > sudden freedom the US so gently will provide !? Remerber, Joe,
    > democracy has no foot under the table in Russia, yet, still most of
    > the people linger to a hard/ authorative central control, what in a
    > manner of speaking Putin is_ it is in their blood, condionated over
    > the years ! The traditional Iraqi culture is wiped clean, their
    > cultural heritage is since long gone and you gonna replace an empty
    > cultural hole with something that we cling onto !?
    The transition to freedom is not a sudden one, which is why the US will have to engage in a protracted Marshall-Plan-type engagement with the region. However, we should not treat these people as if they are somehow genetically trapped in a cognitive childhood which cannot learn to responsibly deal with democracy. Russia is learning, too; it takes time, but it's worth it. At least Europe seems to think so; it's your form of government, too.
    > And yes, I am gonna tell that people embrace a despot like Saddam,
    > they must, they have to ! Otherwise they would be killed !
    They would be killed by Saddam, true. Remove him and his regime and there would be no survival need to persist in the embrace of despots
    .You cling
    > onto democracy and you gonna bomb Iraq to proove your point, is that
    > it !?
    I'm getting tired of this scurrilous canard. The US military plans are specifically designed to concentrate on the Saddamic regime and avoid the citizenry, whom we are trying to help. The US argument is not with the people of Iraq; it is with Saddam Hussein. Our proposed action would be to the great liberating benefit of the vast majority of the oppressed Iraqi people. I'd like to put you in a room with about a dozen Iraqis with baseball bats and let you try to explain to them that you believe that the US should not remove Saddam from power because you do not believe that they could learn to handle democracy.
    >And yes, the Russian people embraced Stalin, and far more people
    > than you realise are still doing it ! The Iraqi people and the
    > Russians are in so a manner conditioned that they have not a single
    > reaction left ! You have to re- learn, re-educate them the/ in basics
    > of cultural/ social intercourse, something that completely is
    > diseappered. Imposing the democratic highlights upon them after Saddam
    > has been removed from power is perversive, you ain 't gonna give them
    > any chance to develop their new born freedom/ culture on their own !
    That's why it will take time; but it's time the US is willing to spend.
    > And the same mechanism rules us, we got to impose democratic ruling
    > upon those who lack it, that is in our blood ! But who says that is
    > the right thing to do !?
    You, actually think that fascist, communist or theocratic totalitarianism is better? For ANYONE? Puh-LEEEZE!
    > Kenneth
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