RE: The ISIS site and Joe's other sources

From: Lawrence DeBivort (
Date: Mon 11 Nov 2002 - 02:36:11 GMT

  • Next message: "Essays by Bernard Lewis"

    Ah, Joe...check out the primary references, the primary sources, and stop depending on these derivative sources.... If you want to cite Lewis, well then, CITE him. Don't screw around with derivative material. Or, stop taking Lewis' name in vain. You were the one who invoked Lewis, calling him the 'doyen' of Middle East studies, and now I am suspecting from this last message of yours that you haven't even read ANY of his books, or attended ANY of his lectures. PLEASE tell me I am wrong, Joe, and that the whole of your thinking is based on something more than the opinionizing of commentators.... These folks are wannabe meme-smiths, Joe; you've got to do better than this.

    So, unless your next email is unduly provocative, post all the urls to secondary sources you want, I'm on to more productive things....

    -----Original Message----- From: []On Behalf Of Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 9:00 PM To:; Subject: RE: The ISIS site and Joe's other sources

    > Joe, I have in my library about a half-dozen of Bernard Lewis' books,
    > and have read them all. If you have actually read any of his writings,
    > such as his extraordinary work on how the Muslim/Arab world
    > 'discovered' Europe, you will see that he hardly supports your
    > patronizing and condemnatory view of the world.
    > But we have to stop meeting like this: I have things I want to get to,
    > and I do not think any of these exchanges are budging your thinking,
    > nor, thinking selfishly, generating any greater memetic insight into
    > how you have derived these views than I already have. As I said in my
    > last message, check in with me when and if you consult any of the
    > easily available sources I suggest. Combing the world for duplicative
    > anti-Muslim expressions and posting them here is not getting anyone
    > anywhere. Since Sept 11, and since the end of the Cold War, such
    > expressions abound, which is why we must hold ourselves to higher
    > standards here and bring to our endeavours an understanding of the
    > memetic dynamics that are at play.
    > I have made my point regarding your views and their sources adequately
    > clear in this forum, and so I break off this discussion with you.
    > Best regards,
    > Lawry
    And I will post the url's to those essays so that others can judge that your characterization of Bernard Lewis' work is self-sevingly flawed.

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