From: Grant Callaghan (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Sat 09 Nov 2002 - 22:40:04 GMT
>On Saturday, November 9, 2002, at 01:21 , Lawrence DeBivort wrote:
>>Grant may be talking about what people who call themselves Christian
>>as being 'God's word.'
>>Wade is talking about 'teachings of Christ' that presumably are derived
>>You could both be right, no?
>Grant has great gobs of rightness, until he claims people are using the
>'words of Christ' to support war. And then he's not right, he's not even
>I _am_ talking about 'the teachings of Christ' as those _are_ his
>(reported) words. They cannot be used to foment war.
>What someone who _calls_ himself a Christian does or asserts or claims is
>not even close to 'following the words of Christ'. That cruel deeds are
>done in the _name_ of another is mundane. Following teachings, however,
>requires some actual show of _following teachings_, and, cruelty is not one
>of the treatments mentioned in the words of Christ. Or the words of Buddha,
>for that matter. Or the words of Confucius. And perhaps not in the words of
>other ethically philosophical leaders and teachers, myriad as they are.
>But the words of Allah/Yahweh/the Lord God, as reported in the Koran and
>the Torah and the Old Testament?- oh yeah. Lots of cruelty, lots of times.
>Followers of Yahweh are well cloaked in excuses for obliteration.
Theree is no righteousness involved. I'm just pointing out how people in power use religion to gain power and then use that power to do the opposite of what the teachings of that religion teach. The Muslims are using the same practice. It's a set of memes common to all of the Western religions. It's as much a part of the tools used by terrorists as it is by American Christians. Quoting Christ or Mohamed is not going to change what Bush and bin Laden are doing.
I'm not saying what they're doing is right or wrong. I'm saying what
they're doing is obvious and carries on a way of leading people into war
that has been practiced since the time of Constantine. And they are using
basically the same memes. What Jesus said or didn't say has nothing to do
with it. What it has to do with is how religion is being used to further
the plans of political leaders and how they get the people they are leading
to follow them in their endeavors.
Wade keeps coming back with arguments that don't address that issue. He
keeps wanting to argue about what Christ or Mohamed said, of which none of
us really know little or nothing since the bible was not even compiled until
the time of Constantine about 400 years after Christ died.
My point again is that memes are tools people use to do things. Religion is
a tool that is, and has long been, used to wage war. If you don't believe
that, go back and read the history of the West since the birth of Christ.
To me it's a no brainer. I don't know why Wade is having such a hard time
coming to grips with it.
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