RE: The terrorism meme

From: Scott Chase (
Date: Sat 09 Nov 2002 - 17:48:47 GMT

  • Next message: Lawrence DeBivort: "RE: The terrorism meme"

    >From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <>
    >To: <>, <>
    >Subject: RE: The terrorism meme
    >Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 04:06:57 -0500
    >Joe, have you ever visited Iraq?
    I haven't. Have you?

    It would have been nice to cruise down the thalweg of the Shatt al Arab in a yacht ca. the mid-80's, as long as one didn't run aground on the rusting hulks of any ships. The mortars would take some getting used to. The Persian Gulf would have been fun during the Tanker Wars.

    Iraq was an artifical creation (ie- Mandate) imposed by Churchill et al upon a heterogenous group of people. To be fair they should have allowed some land for Kurdistan (wrt the Treaty of Sevres).

    After the bloody coups, including the grisly death of Hashemite King Feisal II and Nuri al Said and a little bit later Husayn's attempt on Qasim, the Baath regime has been the main stability point in Iraq...a ruthless stability.

    My opinion of the Baathist regime would depend on whether I lived in a Shia village in the south, A Kurdish village in the north or lucked out and was a Tikriti Sunni related to Husayn somehow.

    Unfortunately, I think that the sanctions are doing as much damage to the Iraqi common folk as Husayn's obstinancy is...they go hand in hand. If we get involved in regime change, I hope its swift and relatively painless for the Iraqi people and that we stick around to fix the damages and get them on their feet. Iraq holds lots of promise for a future democratic secular gov't, such as petrodollars, water, and cultivatible land. The access to the Gulf kinda sucks, which was a reason Husayn went for Kuwait (deep water access), but at least an improved situation in Iraq would do wonders for Jordan's economy, since Aqaba is a decent port for goods bound for petrol rich Iraq.

    Maybe we could give Iraq over to King Abdullah of Jordan and reestablish it as a Hashemite Kingdom...

    Would that tick off the al Saud?

    Maybe U.S. troops could be stationed at an Iraqi base and shifted out of Arabia so the fundies can't use the 'infidels in the land of the holy shrines' canard against us any longer, though the Hijaz *was* separate from the Nadj before Abd al Aziz started his conquering spree and established himself as protector of the mosques, replacing the Hashemite Hussein.

    Either that scenario or we pull out of the Gulf altogether, leaving Saddam Husayn in place, and let history take its course. When the Islamically impure Husayn reinvades Kuwait and perhaps Saudi Arabia too, bin Laden could issue a fatwa and they (SH and ObL) would essentially cancel each other out.
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: []On Behalf Of
    >Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 3:15 AM
    >Subject: Re: The terrorism meme
    > >
    >The Iraqis are actually terrorized and oppressed as a people - that
    >much is true. In Iraq we have a regime that is a danger both to its own
    >people and to the peoples of surrounding nations - as the 15-0 UN
    >Security Council resolution (including Syria) recently affirmed. Bosnia
    >has no oil, nor does Kosovo, and we rescued them when Europe
    >shirked the job and the UN condemned us - for saving Muslims from
    >another fascist - Milosevic (currently undergoing war crimes prosecution
    >in the hague - Saddam's destination, should he live to make it there).
    >Iraq is chief among the offenders as far as WMD's go, for Saddam
    >Hussein is unique among sitting rulers in having employed WMD's, both
    >against neighboring nations and against ethnic undergroups in his own
    >country. Remember that the US war would not be with the people of
    >Iraq; they are chief among those who need rescuing from Saddam's
    >regime, and like the Afghans under the Taliban, they would be most
    >grateful for such a deliverance, and most will not resist their own
    >liberation (they didn't resist much before, and the US didn't follow
    >through in helping them, instead leaving them to Saddam's tender
    >mercies - a shameful mark upon my country which I, and the Iraqis,
    >would love to see rectified).
    >This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    >Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    >For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

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