Re: The terrorism meme

From: Grant Callaghan (
Date: Wed 06 Nov 2002 - 21:05:21 GMT

  • Next message: Wade Smith: "Re: The terrorism meme"

    > > >
    > > >>Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 08:06:14 -0500
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >>On Wednesday, November 6, 2002, at 12:12 , Grant Callaghan wrote:
    > > >>
    > > >>>the armies raised by these religious empires still use the words of
    > > >>> Christ and Mohamed
    > > >>
    > > >>Now, I'm not a biblical or koranic scholar, so, I'm just asking-
    > > >>what words of the new testament are they using? I can bring up about
    > > >>a thousand words from Deuterotomy that would skin you alive, but,
    > > >>I'm absent of anything reported to be said by Christ that could be
    > > >>used to foment war. Just the opposite.
    > > >>
    > > >>- Wade
    > > >>
    > > >That was my point. You can find bibles and quotes from Jesus
    > > >everywhere. Most of the people who fight the wars for European
    > > >countries claim to be Christians and have been indoctrinated in the
    > > >words of Christ, yet the memes they use in dealing with other
    > > >countries are the memes of empire. I grew up going to mass every
    > > >morning and being taught the catechism by nuns every day and joined
    > > >the Marines at the age of 17. The Muslims bow to Mecca five times a
    > > >day and run little kids through these schools where all they do all
    > > >day is read the Koran. Yet they grow up ready to conquer in the name
    > > >of Allah.
    > > >
    > > >The memes that were supposed to change that are there, buried in
    > > >their minds, and yet the memes of empire rule. The people who run
    > > >countries find war to be the final solution when it comes to my memes
    > > >versus your memes. The people who follow these leaders usually go
    > > >along with it. As Bush likes to tell us, we've got to spend 300
    > > >billion dollars a year to keep a big enough army that our enemies
    > > >won't be able to destroy "our way of life." And they are using
    > > >terrorism to stop us from destroying theirs. What is our way of life
    > > >but the set of memes we built our culture around?
    > > >
    > > >Grant
    > > >
    > > P.S. As a note of irony, during the Vietnam war our motto was "We're
    > > fighting for peace." There seems to be no end to the twisted logic
    > > people will accept in defense of their beliefs and desires. I still
    > > don't know why I came out of a religious institute after years of
    > > training in Christian values ready to kill for my country.
    > >
    >We have to run the cruel yet humanistic equations, and do a cost-
    >benefit analysis. If we assume that unseating Saddam would cost a
    >hundred thousand lives (a high-end estimate), but that, if we do not do
    >so and he obtains nukes, that there is only a 10% chance that he will
    >employ them against New York or Tel Aviv, with a certain counterstrike
    >against baghdad whichever he chooses (total dead - 10 million), then
    >the prudent decision, by a factor of 10-to-1, is to act to pre-empt the
    >od such a catastrophic disaster. In the present circumstances,
    >considering Saddam's history and his present endeavors to build or
    >otherwise obtain nukes, the most dangerous course to take, by far, is to
    >twiddle our thumbs up our nether regions and do nothing.
    > >

    That is the excuse we are using all right. But do you really believe that kill or be killed are the only two options for an intelligent society? Why do you think we invented prisons? Why do you think we invented contracts and other ways of avoiding conflict? Why is the only solution to go into Iraq and occupy the country, as we did with Afghanistan? That may be the only solution the people running the government can come up with, but that is a product of the memes they have inherited. That's the Greco-Roman solution. I think it's possible to show them the futility of the course of action they are taking.

    Why are we occupying Afghanistan? The Afghanis didn't attack us. But war and occupation is the only solution the military mind can see. We were clear about that part. Now we have the problem of what to do with Afghanistan now that the Taliban has been neutralized. We're not nearly so eager to rebuild the country and try to solve its problems. We will have the same problem with Iraq if we go in and remove the leaders. We have to provide new leaders that the people will follow and we have to rebuild what we destroy. Another name for conquer and occupy. The Roman solution all over again. I doubt the people we will choose will be any more acceptable than Pontius Pilate was


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