Re: electric meme bombs

From: Van oost Kenneth (
Date: Fri 01 Nov 2002 - 16:32:14 GMT

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    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wade T.Smith" <>
    > On Friday, November 1, 2002, at 06:31 , Van oost Kenneth wrote:
    > > This is becoming a question of ideology IMO !
    > > Wade is in a sense emphazin' individuality and Joe lingers onto a more
    > > collective state of things.
    > > In Wade's proposal a Bildung- ideal is set/ implied, Joe uses the gene-
    > > ralisation to drive cultural transmission.
    > > Wade's proposal is something that implies humanism/ romantism, Joe's
    > > claim is dependent of something higher, more divine, collectiviness is
    > > seen here as a ' natural autority ' !
    > I don't honestly think you have Joe's position perspectived quite
    > correctly- I'm willing to argue with him precisely because I think his
    > position is very well based in selfness, or individuality, if you will,
    > but, I'm very happy to see you say the bemetic model is one housed in
    > humanism, because, I think it is, too. But I'm sure he will chime in.
    > Joe's 'meme-ory' is practically the self, for all referential purposes
    > that I can see.

    Let me reconsider,

    Wade's scheme implies that all and everything are/ is absolutely different from and nonrelational to all other, something that is not possible, but it is something what deserves attention. Joe claims that at the bias a similarity ( a type) must be in place. What results are tokens, or what Wade argues to be repesentations of selfness.

    Ok, but where I see a Self- Bildung scheme in the former ( Wade), I see a common base in Joe's latter. Wade's scheme implies only and for all time 1 step, Joe's process is already than the second stage of a natural process of which we than do know nothing. The notion of collectiviness is given by the bias of similarity, where in your scheme Wade, a base like this is missing.

    Your scheme assumes that the self- referential process is absolute, everytime it has to be built from the ground up, in Joe's the self- references of the Self are biased.

    That is what I see, that ain 't something I deny, but it is something I am willing to fight,


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