Re: Standard definition

From: Wade T.Smith (
Date: Thu 31 Oct 2002 - 04:29:19 GMT

  • Next message: Grant Callaghan: "Re: electric meme bombs"

    On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, at 10:57 , wrote:

    > And what about the storage of meme-ory?

    The fact of memory is self-evident.

    What about the storage of meme-ory? How is that self-evident?

    > But to obviate my point, you would have to be thinking of nothing, both
    > before and during your automatic-writing performance.

    Writing is both intentional and haphazard, directed and aleatory- I am not making a claim that it is 'automatic' at all. I am merely saying that I do not, regardless of how carefully I think about it, capable of commanding precisely what falls from my fingers, and I do claim that no-one is, ever, nor has been. Other things can and do happen, unforeseen.

    > Uh-uh. In the first case, we have physical differences;

    My first case was a specific species of spider making specific webs against varying supports- I stand by it- this is a hard-wired stratagem that nevertheless, due to purely environmental differences, will produce similar but non-identical webs. Language is precisely this sort of stratagem, and environment will produce similar but non-identical structures.

    > in the second,
    > we have cultural, that is, cognitive ones - exactly the kind of thing
    > your
    > behavior-only attempt at memetics cannot admit without self-
    > destructing.

    My second case was English vs. Chinese- yes, cultural differences, but differences produced by _one_ unique species, homo sapiens, in different physical and cultural environments, environment being the _only_ differing circumstance as the cognitive ability for language is genetic and developmental, and thus the only affector of the language difference. No destruction of the behavior-only memetic model is occuring at any time in this, in fact, I see only underscoring and support for the model, and, yes, self-destruction of the meme in the mind model, as we cannot have had, at any time, a memetic transfer across the Pacific Ocean, and yet we have languages on both shores. It is the behavior that needed to change with the environment, not some imaginary entity placed in a brain by some imaginary process involving an ancillary layer of memory and cognition.

    - Wade

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