Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id AAA22577 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Wed, 22 May 2002 00:31:11 +0100 X-Originating-IP: [126.96.36.199] From: "Scott Chase" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: email@example.com Subject: RE: Boom! and you go to Heaven Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 19:24:58 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <F96z8Phg8VMb5UWgP1A00006c2e@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 May 2002 23:24:59.0058 (UTC) FILETIME=[B960F120:01C2011E] Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
>From: "Lawrence DeBivort" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>Subject: RE: Boom! and you go to Heaven
>Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 02:12:17 -0400
>Christians of various persuasions make up a sizeable minority of
>Palestinians, and like all Palestinians, many of them were forced by the
>Israelis out of Palestine.
That's a very complicated issue but Deir Yassin might be one event that adds
force to the "forced out" or "scared out" argument. OTOH, weren't some
Palestinans compelled by other Arabs in hopes that Isreal would be quickly
defeated in 1948 and the Palestinians could then return?
I'm trying to quickly re-read Ahron Bregman's concise but informative
_Israel's Wars, 1947-93_ (2000. Routledge. New York), so I'll try to brush
up a little on Israel's War of Independence. I found Bregman's book a good
companion to Arik Sharon's _Warrior_ as Sharon was involved in all these
Looks like Arik's facing a possible "no-confidence" in the Knesset. There
could be more conflict within Israel's gov't coming beyond the Likud
infighting between Sharon and Netanyahu.
>Christian Palestinians, helped by Christian
>western churches received considerable assistance in moving to Europe and
>the US. I haven't seen any survey data, but anecdotally would guess that
>Christian Palestinians are just as determined to get their homes in
>Palestine back as Muslim Palestinians. Hanan Ashrawi, for example, is a
>Christian and leading spokesperson for the Palestinians. I didn't know
>about George Habash -- thanks for the information.
Plus, something I heard before but is corroborated by Aburish's book is that
Arafat's wife Suha is a Christian.
I'm intrigued by Ashrawi. I have seen her several times on the news as the
"go to" person when a moderate Palestinian opinion is needed on some issue.
That she is Christian (and female) is very interesting. Sort of demolishes
whatever superficial stereotypes may exist along the lines that Palestinian
equals Muslim extremist.
Aburish doesn't seem to be all too fond of Arafat or at least he's
presenting Arafat in a very critical light.
>It would be interesting to listen to a discussion between a Christian
>Palestinian and a US Christian fundamentalist Zionist.
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]On Behalf
> > Of Scott Chase
> > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 6:06 PM
> > To: email@example.com
> > Subject: Re: Boom! and you go to Heaven
> > >From: "Wade T.Smith" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> > >Reply-To: email@example.com
> > >To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> > >Subject: Re: Boom! and you go to Heaven
> > >Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 18:51:55 -0400
> > >
> > >
> > >On Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 06:17 , Lawrence DeBivort wrote:
> > >
> > >>The matter of 'going to heaven and finding virgins, of whatever
> > gender, is
> > >>a
> > >>western oerception and preoccupation--not a Muslim one. IIRC, the
> > >>suggests that someone martyred for Christendom is rewarded with
> > >>but
> > >>I doubt many western soldiers leap to arms with that hope in
> > mind.... Is
> > >>there a Christian or Christian scholar on the list who can fill in
> > >>idea?
> > >
> > >It's not 'not even' a Muslim one- the mention of houri's in the
> > paradise of
> > >the afterlife is apocryphal in the q'uran according to many islamic
> > >scholars.
> > >
> > >But, serving one's god and country, and the giving up of one's life for
> > >those authorities, is an old and perhaps ageless, and perhaps
> > >non-isolated property of society. It is certainly not just a xian or an
> > >islamic hero that offers his life in battle.
> > >
> > It's been a while since I've been to church but that hymn "Onward
> > Christian
> > soldiers marching as to war" comes to mind. Whatever the intent
> > behind this
> > hymn was there are some crusading connotations at least at first
> > sight. It
> > could be a metaphorical "war" like jihad is supposedly a metaphorical
> > internal struggle and not the externalized one we've seen waged against
> > US-ian and Israeli targets.
> > Since Dr. George Habash of the Popular Front for the Liberation
> > of Palestine
> > and the earlier Arab Nationalist Movement was a Greek Orthodox
> > Christian, a
> > factoid I picked up from reading Said Aburish's _Arafat: from Defender
> > Dictator_ (1998. Bloomsbury. New York), I'm led to wonder to what degree
> > Christian Arabs have contributed to the Palestinian side of the
> > Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
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