Re: pls direct me to a memetics list <eom>

From: Steve Drew (
Date: Tue May 21 2002 - 21:28:56 BST

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    Subject: Re: pls direct me to a memetics list <eom>
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    > Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 19:56:12 -0400
    > From: "Scott Chase" <>
    > Subject: Re: pls direct me to a memetics list <eom>
    >> From: Steve Drew <>
    >> Reply-To:
    >> To: <>
    >> Subject: Re: pls direct me to a memetics list <eom>
    >> Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 23:34:58 +0100
    >> Hi Wade
    >> Firstly as I've said before, atheism is as much a belief as religion. Prove
    >> god doesn't exist! Or watch out next time you cross a zebra crossing :-)
    >> Bush is one of the most redneck Presidents in recent years. If he were on
    >> minimum wage he would probably live in a mobile home with a selection of
    >> guns etc or don't you get the picture ?
    > Wow, did you cultivate your view of the U.S. from re-runs of the Dukes of
    > Hazzard or what? Being a Texan, Bush would be more of a cowboy than a
    > plowboy, a distinction probably lost on the Brits but I've heard plenty of
    > times from the "crackers" I grew up with. Texas is an entity in itself, with
    > its lone star, distinct from the rest of the south in some ways.

    No I didn't as I'm sure you're aware :-) I could have chosen a better term,
    but it was not directed at Americans, but Bush. Most of the English terms I
    can think of carry very racist connotations and I don't think Bush is. I
    just think he has blinkered fixed views of the world regardless of reality.

    I guess the distinctions between States is difficult from my point of view
    as is the difference between the Uk and the English, Scots etc can be for
    > BTW Clinton was from Arkansas. Maybe his Rhodes scholarship and Brit
    > enculturation disqualifies him from "redneck" status in British eyes.
    > Johnson, Carter, Clinton, and Dubya are all kinda easily lumped into the
    > redneck US prez category. I'm sort of liking that Carter's got the fortitude
    > to confront the Cuba issue, probably much to Dubya's chagrin.

    Seems to me he's acting more like the Prez on this issue than the one doing
    the job!
    >> He's torn up more treaties than anyone else cos it hurts American buisines
    >> and fuck off to other people. Try reading your own newspapers about what he
    >> is like.
    > Or watch FoxNEWS where he's venerated.
    > Are you giving Wade the longhorns for Bush? Wade's living in the heart of
    > US-ian liberalism, so-called Taxachusetts, land of the Kennedys I hope you
    > know. "New England" is far removed from the "deep south" you're bashing away
    > at. Of course Bush Senior the Yalie is often kickin' back in Maine, but
    > let's not make those distinctions please ;-)

    My geography isn't that bad, thanks, and if I've annoyed Wade, then my
    apologies to him
    >> Also, most of the world do not follow US versions of Christianity, or
    >> Christianity at all for that matter. You seem to espouse the American
    >> doctrine of the founding fathers religion while denying the religion that
    >> supports it.
    > Is this one of dem dar Brit-Yank thangs?

    Not as such. It was a point that from the outside, there appears to be a
    certain homogeniety, with the USA as a whole being more comfortable with
    public displays of religion. Over here when Blair starts with the Holy bit,
    even some Christians cringe! (Poor repressed Brits) The second point is
    that, again from outside, religion seems to be about the individual in the
    puritan sense of the 'get of your backside and make something of yourself'
    England is the meek variety of love thy neighbour (especially the Foreign
    Office), yet in (say) South America, the local Catholic churches have backed
    the Left in one Country and the Right in another.
    >> Please also note that I have taken the trouble to reply to you.
    >> A courtesy you have not extended to me in the past.
    >> Following is the whole post, not your snippet.

    I had a bad day and Wades 'I want to know.' hit a nerve. The absurd thing is
    I can't remember what it was he wouldn't answer!!

    And what have I learned? Next time I will kick of the shoes, crack a tin and
    watch something funny on the box. Leave the thinking till later.

    Hope no one's nose has been put out of joint. If so apologies.


    >> Regards
    >> Steve
    >>> Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 17:18:52 -0400
    >>> From: "Wade T.Smith" <>
    >>> Subject: Re: pls direct me to a memetics list <eom>
    >>> On Sunday, May 19, 2002, at 04:54 , Steve Drew wrote:
    >>>> Try looking at religion from more than the US view.
    >>> I look at all religions from an atheist's, i.e., _disinterested_ point
    >>> of view. I do not 'look at it' from 'the US view', but, really, Steve,
    >>> just what the hell _is_ that?
    >>> I want to know.
    >>> - - Wade
    >> Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 21:54:35 +0100
    >> From: Steve Drew <>
    >> Subject: Re: pls direct me to a memetics list <eom>
    >> Very interesting Ray. In some respects the study of chain mail could aid
    >> the
    >> study of religion because the chain mail letter, though depending on
    >> superstition etc is a much smaller memetic unit than religion and hence
    >> more
    >> susceptible to study than religion itself. What do you think?
    >> Also, Wade your wrong. Religion doesn't seem to relate to most of the
    >> factors you mention. Bush is loaded and come across as a bit of a red neck
    >> that on min wage would be out shooting owt for the pot.
    >> Try looking at religion from more than the US view.
    >> Regards
    >> Steve
    >>> Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 17:35:27 -0400
    >>> From: <>
    >>> Subject: Re: pls direct me to a memetics list <eom>
    >>>> On Tuesday, May 14, 2002, at 05:08 , Steve Drew wrote:
    >>>>> It is a message who's sole excistance relies on "copy me or
    >>>>> else!"
    >>>> And upon superstition, and leisure time, and social standing, and a
    >>>> postal service or other distribution, and perhaps a hundred other
    >>>> motivations and forces none of which will be, ever are, or could even
    >>>> be
    >>>> investigated or corrected for.
    >>>> IMHO such studies are useless. They are only valid as meters of
    >>>> academia's distance from practicality.
    >>>> - Wade
    >>> As opposed to a discussion of why religious fundamentalism spreads among
    >>> Moslems or numerous other hot button topics you frequently participate
    >>> in. Clearly none of the factors you have mentioned above cloud or muddy
    >>> the precise analysis engaged in here.
    >>> Neither the cladistic nor the population distribution analysis I
    >>> suggested need necessarily get into those motivations. They would
    >> simply
    >>> catalog relations among letters and population frequencies, leaving
    >>> causal analysis for another time. Such studies would produce useful
    >>> information much in the same way that a classification and population
    >>> distribution analysis of related species need not immediately get into
    >>> why speciation occurred or the reasons for differences in population
    >>> distribution. Check 'Reconstruction of organisational phylogeny from
    >>> memetic similarity analysis: Proof of feasibility' by Andrew Lord and If
    >>> Price in the September issue of the Journal of Memetics for an example.
    >>> I suspect that chain letters could be much more objectively classified
    >>> than religious denominations.

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