Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id UAA04430 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:25:15 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c1dffc$c8eccf80$ebadeb3e@default> From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be> To: <email@example.com> References: <B8D0F340.B2firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Stereotypes Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 21:28:10 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Drew <email@example.com>
Firstly, i would be very careful about using stereotypes to profile people,
as like memes they can bite back!
Secondly, you may not be using the percieved attributes of the individual,
but the actual attributes of that person. i.e. that woman may actually want
to do 'womens' job's etc
<< Yes, that was something I got in mind too, that in fact, maybe ( as
they have worked with me before) they manipulate me, instead of being it
the other way round !
If that is the case, how and in what way can we then explain the actions
made by and the behavior shown by my collegues who in the end don 't
get the work done properly !?
They are then trying to ' chance ' those people where in fact those don 't
want to be changed_ and as a result the work gets behind in time !?
That in a way my collegues may actually disgard the fact that woman
want to do woman's work.... !?
However you could of course be using one aspect, and that is the self
fulfilling prophecy. If you tell a black person (say) that they are thick,
lazy etc as they grow up, as they are educated (and how) with this in mind,
which leads to poorer jobs then they can quite often come to accept the
stereotype as their reality and act accordinly.
<< Yes, the self- fulfilling prophency plays a role in this, I suppose_ that
is why I said that by the application of the consolidation of stereotypes
of their being I get a better result.
With all the respect I grant them, I mean that_ leaving them, so to speak
within the particular segment ( the stereotype [ biologically based or
whatever] ) of their being, can be indeed be something of which they
are not aware. In that way_ it is like a ' defense ' of the material of the
Self. And in defense the Self is not willing to give up the things out of
what it is made !!
In a sense, it obeys the same laws of conformity by which the organism
operates of which it is part. But I think I must, like William James, avoid
basing this on the biological organism....
Stereotypes are very insidious things.
Although your collegues may appear to be happy, it could
be that they are not aware that they can be anything else. It also seems to
me that it could also be construed that you are actully repressing them. (I
think that last bit is Marx?)
<< I don 't think I repress them_ it is not that I fix them up with the idea
to accept the image they got probably of themselves ( that is, being re-
pressed). That is something I think they brought onto themselves_ WE
projected an image of despise upon themselves_ an image which some
This is, according Charles Taylor, the main instrument of their repression.
Their first task would be to disgard such imposed and destructive identity.
And in that respect I don 't think I can change mush of the attitudes they
got ( or not have). It is my conviction that the pre- supposition that those
who think they are getting repressed is based on already accepted de-
formed self- images. The question is, in what way I deform and repress
the image they got already of themselves !?
I do not do such thing !
It is just that in the way I organise my work and I need to do that in the
most flexible, most economical way possible_ I ' create ' space/ place,
so that those I work with can/ may exploit their own interests and im-
portancies, although I presume, some of them do feel uncomfortable or
indifferent with the role(s) which were them ascribe to on bases of their
gender, race or cultural background.
I do so, acknowlegde the fact that those I work with have certain abilities/
attitudes associated with their biological organism, and in that way I do
repress their intellectual or professional abilities, but I do amplify
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