Re: Stereotypes

From: Kenneth Van Oost (
Date: Tue Apr 09 2002 - 20:28:10 BST

  • Next message: rmey4892: "simple and transient-state memes"

    Received: by id UAA04430 (8.6.9/5.3[ref] for from; Tue, 9 Apr 2002 20:25:15 +0100
    Message-ID: <001301c1dffc$c8eccf80$ebadeb3e@default>
    From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <>
    To: <>
    References: <>
    Subject: Re: Stereotypes
    Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 21:28:10 +0200
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    X-Priority: 3
    X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
    X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300
    X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
    Precedence: bulk

    Hi Steve,
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Steve Drew <>
    Firstly, i would be very careful about using stereotypes to profile people,
    as like memes they can bite back!

    Secondly, you may not be using the percieved attributes of the individual,
    but the actual attributes of that person. i.e. that woman may actually want
    to do 'womens' job's etc

    << Yes, that was something I got in mind too, that in fact, maybe ( as
    they have worked with me before) they manipulate me, instead of being it
    the other way round !
    If that is the case, how and in what way can we then explain the actions
    made by and the behavior shown by my collegues who in the end don 't
    get the work done properly !?
    They are then trying to ' chance ' those people where in fact those don 't
    want to be changed_ and as a result the work gets behind in time !?
    That in a way my collegues may actually disgard the fact that woman
    want to do woman's work.... !?

    However you could of course be using one aspect, and that is the self
    fulfilling prophecy. If you tell a black person (say) that they are thick,
    lazy etc as they grow up, as they are educated (and how) with this in mind,
    which leads to poorer jobs then they can quite often come to accept the
    stereotype as their reality and act accordinly.

    << Yes, the self- fulfilling prophency plays a role in this, I suppose_ that
    is why I said that by the application of the consolidation of stereotypes
    of their being I get a better result.
    With all the respect I grant them, I mean that_ leaving them, so to speak
    within the particular segment ( the stereotype [ biologically based or
    whatever] ) of their being, can be indeed be something of which they
    are not aware. In that way_ it is like a ' defense ' of the material of the
    Self. And in defense the Self is not willing to give up the things out of
    what it is made !!
    In a sense, it obeys the same laws of conformity by which the organism
    operates of which it is part. But I think I must, like William James, avoid
    basing this on the biological organism....

    Stereotypes are very insidious things.
    Although your collegues may appear to be happy, it could
    be that they are not aware that they can be anything else. It also seems to
    me that it could also be construed that you are actully repressing them. (I
    think that last bit is Marx?)

    << I don 't think I repress them_ it is not that I fix them up with the idea
    to accept the image they got probably of themselves ( that is, being re-
    pressed). That is something I think they brought onto themselves_ WE
    projected an image of despise upon themselves_ an image which some
    This is, according Charles Taylor, the main instrument of their repression.
    Their first task would be to disgard such imposed and destructive identity.

    And in that respect I don 't think I can change mush of the attitudes they
    got ( or not have). It is my conviction that the pre- supposition that those
    who think they are getting repressed is based on already accepted de-
    formed self- images. The question is, in what way I deform and repress
    the image they got already of themselves !?
    I do not do such thing !
    It is just that in the way I organise my work and I need to do that in the
    most flexible, most economical way possible_ I ' create ' space/ place,
    so that those I work with can/ may exploit their own interests and im-
    portancies, although I presume, some of them do feel uncomfortable or
    indifferent with the role(s) which were them ascribe to on bases of their
    gender, race or cultural background.

    I do so, acknowlegde the fact that those I work with have certain abilities/
    attitudes associated with their biological organism, and in that way I do
    repress their intellectual or professional abilities, but I do amplify

    Many regards,


    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Apr 09 2002 - 20:36:15 BST