Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id FAA10110 (8.6.9/5.3[ref firstname.lastname@example.org] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from email@example.com); Thu, 28 Mar 2002 05:01:34 GMT X-Originating-IP: [22.214.171.124] From: "Grant Callaghan" <firstname.lastname@example.org> To: email@example.com Subject: Re: FW: MD Dawkins on quantum/mysticism convergence Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:55:34 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: <LAW2-F126zkXo79lV7a000087b2@hotmail.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Mar 2002 04:55:35.0145 (UTC) FILETIME=[CBE35D90:01C1D614] Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
>From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <Kenneth.Van.Oost@village.uunet.be>
>Subject: Re: FW: MD Dawkins on quantum/mysticism convergence
>Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:40:44 +0100
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Grant Callaghan <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>That's where the twain no longer meet, Kenneth. I say a word means what I
>use it to mean when I manke an assertion. You may not understand what I
>mean by it, or you may think I'm not using the word properly, but the
>meaning of the word I mean when I say it is mine. What you get from it is
>yours. The "meaning" you are talking about is the most common meaning as
>exhibited in a dictionary. But if you are trying to understand what I or
>anyone else is saying, you have to make a judgement about what I/they are
>using the word to mean. You will understand my words in direct proportion
>to your familiarity with how I have used those words in the past. The less
>familiar you are, the less likely you are to understand.
>A hip, for example, is commonly a reference to a part of the body. But if
>ask, "Are you hip?" that's a different usage entirely. And if I say "I'm
>going to hip you in the head," that's a meaning you might have to reach for
>to understand. But how I use the word determines what it means to the
>people I am addressing it to. Jazz musicians might have no trouble at all
>understanding that last quotation. An English teacher, on the other hand,
>might just be confused by it.
>Yeah, that is what Putman meant, I suppose.
>You mustn 't confuse the meaning of the words/ expressions with the usual
>criteria which defines the reference of a word.
>Everybody knows,( like you with Hip) a lot of stereotypical characteris-
>tics about what ' hip ' could mean. You have mentioned a few.
>But if the meaning of a word is fixed into its reference, than is the
>of that word what IT IS.
>In Putmans example, the reference is fixed by which what the substance
>has to be in all kinds of different worlds possible to be water_ thus H2O.
>In all possible worlds water has to be H2O and H2O has to be water
>and not like Putman said " twater ".
>It means that you indeed can use the word ' hip ' in all the by us known
>possibilities ( and a few new ones can be found, I don 't doubt that), but
>you can 't make up a few where ' hip ' looses its reference_ that is its
>meaning in all possible worlds.
>Meaning, that the 'real meaning' of any word is known only to a small
>group of people_ only by jazz players for example.
>You can indeed force a new meaning for the word hip, but only after
>agreement it will be accepted as such.
>You can 't say, in a way I am going to blow my hip... I suppose every-
>body will know what you are talking about ( by resemblance), but ' hip '
>has no reference with/ to that expression.
>Jus for laughs_ break a hip ! Sounds more agressive than the tendency
>for good fortune if you break a leg, don 't you think !?
>That is what Putman meant, without the reference a word has no meaning.
>PS, I am not an expert in such matters, I was just reading an article....
Ironically, my Taiwanese brother-in-law blew his hip out practicing karate
and had to have it replaced with a metal implant. But that's another story.
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