Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id WAA00811 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:26:45 GMT X-Originating-IP: [188.8.131.52] User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.0.3 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:18:10 +0000 Subject: RE: Rumsfeld Says.. From: Steve Drew <email@example.com> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Message-ID: <B8B178BB.2E1email@example.com> In-Reply-To: <200203101239.MAA01065@alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk> Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2002 22:20:34.0536 (UTC) FILETIME=[CC33AE80:01C1C881] Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: email@example.com
> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:37:24 +1100
> From: Jeremy Bradley <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Subject: RE: Rumsfeld Says..
> At 08:15 PM 8/03/02 +0000, you wrote:
>>> Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:38:02 +1100
>>> From: Jeremy Bradley <email@example.com>
>>> Subject: RE: Rumsfeld Says..
>>> At 09:55 PM 7/03/02 +0000, you wrote:
>>>> Query. was there anything before the Europeans came that could have been
>>>> used as transport in Australia?
>>> Yes Steve
>>> Feet. Do not be drawn by the meme that transport was a condition of
>>> civilisation. I could well argue the opposite (lol).
>> No, i wasn't implying that. I was musing on the effect of transport on
>> violence early on. Foraging using transport greatly increases the range of
>> territory that can be accessed for resources, and also brings you into
>> (potentially) into contact with more groups.
>> The Inca's did pretty well using legwork to build a civilisation.
> Good point Steve. There is an idea over here, which is strongly held by
> some, that wheels are the pre-requisite of civilisation, and therefore the
> dispossession of the indigenous people of Aus was in some way OK. I more
> hold to the view that wheels facilitated war rather than civility.
I agree, although i include four feet as well. IIRC, when the indigenous
Americans got there hands on the horse courtesy of the Spanish and could
expand their range, they engaged in more conflict, particularly those with
versus those without in the early days. Similarly i heard that in large
areas of Japan, Tibet etc the wheel was not adopted for rather obvious
reasons, but did not put much of a cramp on the development of civilisation.
Warfare and mobility do seem to be inextricably bound together just from a
practical stand point.
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