Re: Rumsfeld Says....

From: Kenneth Van Oost (
Date: Sat Mar 09 2002 - 20:22:39 GMT

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    From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <>
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    Subject: Re: Rumsfeld Says....
    Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:22:39 +0100
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    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Grant Callaghan <>
    Well, I can see there is little chance of us agreeing on anything here. My
    view is based on my concept of memes being something we choose to use and
    yours is based on people having no choice. They are stuck with the memes
    that infect them. It doesn't matter, though. Neither you nor I have any
    influence over the people or their choices. The damage having already been
    done can't be undone, especially by people who are not making the decisions.

    Watching Bush and Hosni Mubarak stand up and repeat the same tired cliches
    they have spouted for years and months again today tells me more than
    anything else that there will be no end to the hostilities until the people
    who are killing each other tire of it and decide on their own to stop. They
    just have to realize that the attitude of "This is our land and we will not
    give up a single inch" will end with not a single inch left on either side
    that is worth defending.

    Hi Grant,

    We don 't have to agree ! That makes any discussion worthwhile !

    But yes, in the end there will be nothing left to defend.
    After all, historically speaking there was no Jewish- state before 1948,
    only Palestina ! The Jews infiltrated legal/ illegal the land and maded
    their own. Were the Arabs blind, naive !? Who will tell !?

    The Arabs are now a minority ( 16 %) and yes, they got the right to
    fight if their land was been taken from them. But between 1900- 1945
    that was not the case !
    The Arabs did sell their ground_ Jews moved in, legally !
    OTOH, again historical speaking, going back 2000 years, Jews lived
    where Palestina was, they were hunted down ( the Jewish diaspora).
    Claiming now that the land is historical theirs is claiming that I have
    rights on that little piece of savanna in Kenia where my human- ancestors
    used to walk !

    The same, initial problem about ground- rights can be seen now in
    Zimbabwe and was a major bias for the troubles in the early sixties
    in Congo. And in a wider context such a debate about ground- rights
    is the fundation of racism and xenophobia. They are trespassing our
    turf !



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