RE: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence

From: Scott Chase (
Date: Fri Mar 08 2002 - 03:14:54 GMT

  • Next message: Philip Jonkers: "Re: Example of an aggresive irrational meme"

    Received: by id DAA25997 (8.6.9/5.3[ref] for from; Fri, 8 Mar 2002 03:20:12 GMT
    X-Originating-IP: []
    From: "Scott Chase" <>
    Subject: RE: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence
    Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:14:54 -0500
    Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
    Message-ID: <>
    X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Mar 2002 03:14:54.0851 (UTC) FILETIME=[6B54A530:01C1C64F]
    Precedence: bulk

    >From: Vincent Campbell <>
    >To: "''" <>
    >Subject: RE: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence
    >Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:12:15 -0000
    > >>I don't believe I actually did any name-calling, only expressed
    > >>view that there is a tendency to over-celebrate indigenous peoples
    >out of
    > >>guilt over past atrocities committed against them.
    > <Vincent
    > > The above sentence contains the intimation that those who would espouse
    > > the
    > > rights of indigenous Australians are guilt ridden, bleeding-hearted
    > > do-gooders (all derogatory terms in my country).>
    > >
    > I didn't say 'bleeding-hearted' or 'do-gooders', I simply indicated
    >that the judging of peoples due to historically generated guilt is
    > >> But that doesn't allow one to view peoples with rose-tinted
    > <Ah, rose-tinted glasses, does not this call the wearer of such
    >naively stupid?>
    > No. I don't think people who do this are naive or stupid, only that
    >they are interpreting peoples in an emotionally biased way, which is
    > <And here's the old meme that promulgates the nonsense that
    >'writing' is the
    > > only form of reliably recording history (I won't go into the numerous
    > > contrary examples).>
    > >
    > I didn't say that, only that oral tradition is problematic which it
    > <Besides the oral evidence, which includes a virulent
    > > mythscape and an oral tradition which is arguably more reliable than the
    > > manipulated and subjective texts on which we modern folk place so much
    > > trust, there is an historical record of great antiquity in cave art.>
    > >
    > You don't think accounts passed down from person to person through
    >oral communication are subjective?
    > < In the literature I have read, and in the seminars, programs and
    >discussions I
    > > have heard and/or participated in, I have heard no serious suggestion
    > > mindless masacre of people occurred in this country before European
    > > invasion.>
    > >
    > Who said anything about 'mindless' masscres? I'm talking about
    >sytematic territorial disputes that have historically occurred in all human
    >societies. You're adding emotional emphasis to my points that are not
    >there, or intended.
    > <If you would like to see Cpt. Cook's and Govenor Philip's orders go
    > > , and for comment on the existing International Law
    > > the time look for Blackstone's commentaries of 1740 or thereabouts (this
    > > is
    > > not the title but if you search your libraries DB I'm sure that you will
    > > find it.>
    > >
    > I'm not disputing what the colonists did- there's a record of it for
    >a start.
    > <The appeal is not so much that I, or they for that matter, would
    >like to
    > > revert to an ancient way of life, it is more that they were not suicidal
    > > in
    > > the way that we modern industrial-age products are. Each society is
    > > different in many ways of course and I will not be drawn further into
    > > generalisations.>
    > >
    > You contradict yourself a little here.
    > <Ah Vincent, at least I can find one sentence with which I can
    > > Yours - stirred but not shaken
    > > Jeremy>
    > >
    > As I originally said, I wasn't attempting to annoy anyone, not
    >deliberately anyway.
    > Vincent
    I took your comment about not romanticizing indigenous peoples as a call for
    objectivity. No matter from which part of the globe one stems, if the human
    psyche is taken to be universal, all human groups are potentially
    bloodthirsty and exploitative, given the proper historic circumstances and
    means at their disposal.

    Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:

    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Mar 08 2002 - 03:30:31 GMT