Re: Rumsfeld Says...

From: Steve Drew (
Date: Tue Mar 05 2002 - 22:18:19 GMT

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    Subject: Re: Rumsfeld Says...
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    > Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:20:54 +0100
    > From: "Kenneth Van Oost" <>
    > Subject: Re: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence
    > - ----- Original Message -----
    > From: Joachim Maier <>
    >> I fear the qualities you are talking about are more fiction than reality.
    >> Don't misunderstand me, I think America is a great country, but it is not
    >> the greatest country on earth. It is a great country like many others too.
    >> Lawrence, your statement implies that America is not acting according to
    >> the qualities it is admired for. I live in Maine now for 18 years and
    > agree
    >> that America still has to demonstrate that it has the capability to act
    >> according to the qualities it is admired for.
    > Hi everyone,
    > Sorry for this serious delay,
    > I have to agree with Joachim here.
    > What the US thinks where it is admired for is wishful thinking, America
    > is not admired as a ' country ', only parts of its existence are taking
    > worth-
    > while. As many other countries I suppose, but the US have to face the
    > consequences of its being, so to speak.

    This is a very nice point Kenneth, and moves us away from the stereotypes
    that can occur when we think of nations rather than people. America is no
    more a unified conglomerate of opinions than is the UK. Rather it is an
    aggregate of opinions with some sounding louder than others. There is much
    to admire about US, French.... etc, culture, just as there is much from my
    point of view that is not admirable. How we chuckled over the Florida
    debacle that gave Bush the presidency. Unfortunately our own system means
    that a minority view can still run the country, with apathy the true winner
    failing to gain any places :-)
    > People IMO, in general, and that could be a species- bound disposition,
    > I don 't know, don 't want the attitude of the US. We are, in a sense, not
    > ' brought up ' in such a way. If we bully, we get punished, if we steal we
    > go to prison. The ethics and the morality of such things is IMO still
    > debatable, but NOT if this is some kind of policy.
    > I agree that each country has the right to defend itself, whatever the
    > reasons were to hit it in the first place, but don 't you think that the
    > mean
    > reason could lie some levels deeper !?
    > I mean by this, at the time of the ignoration of the constitution weren 't
    > there ' things ' drag within !? The ultimate reason for America 's exis-
    > tence, ' to give freedom to the world ' etc and whatever, don 't you
    > think those kind of " memes " slipped in the minds of all Americans !?
    > Something like that the French think that they are all great lovers !?
    > That the point of the whole discussion have to be found not in the
    > fundaments where upon America stands as a nation, but in the funda-
    > ments of how the Americian people thinks and behave !?
    > I believe I have some discussion about this with Vincent in the time,
    > and the conclusion was, for that time, that the legacy of those people
    > who did came to the new world first is still working through.
    > Perhaps, if you can, it would be better to start there.
    > An analogy would be the way by which Germany and Belgium, Holland,
    > Japan and more are trying to get in the clear with the country's past.

    According to Hugo young in the UK Guardian, it is the lack of facing up to
    the past that means America remains the world moral arbiter. Germany has
    still to acknowledge the role played by ordinary Germans (3 wise monkeys),
    and Japan has never really addressed the issue of its role and actions in
    the Pacific Theatre. In the past few years there has been uproar in Japanese
    academic circles about the lack of information in school textbooks about the
    atrocities committed

    > We rebuilt it, atleast some of us are trying to.
    > You don 't have to forget the past, neither ignore the facts of it, but use
    > them to your advantage.
    > And IMO, the US is not doing just that, the US is holding on to values,
    > traits and habits since long gone, outdated in most parts of the world.
    > I would say, come to your senses America, be modern, be rational !
    > Regards,
    > Kenneth

    > ( No flag intented whatsoever )

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