Re: Rumsfeld Says....

From: Steve Drew (
Date: Tue Mar 05 2002 - 22:18:05 GMT

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    > Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 14:55:46 -0800
    > From: "Grant Callaghan" <>
    > Subject: Re: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence

    >> Hi Grant,
    >> I am sorry, but I can 't agree on this ! This is something completely out
    >> of context !
    >> The bias where upon the Jews and the Palestinians now have to live their
    >> lives are NOT, and I repeat NOT of their own choosing !
    >> The state of Israel was indicted in 1948 by others, not the Jews neither
    >> the Palestinians were involved in the proces.
    >> Saying otherwise is being not intellectual honest !
    >> OTOH, you were correct saying that the US is resorting the same kind
    >> of effects, and within the context of such a knowing how is it then
    >> possible
    >> that you write what you wrote !?
    >> You have giving here the ultimate proof that the US, and all others I
    >> suppose, is/ are stuck in the way of their thinking and handling.
    >> And knowing that, what is holding you back to change all that, or is
    >> that then a typical affect of the American way of life, keeping the pro-
    >> blems in space, so that you can ' act ' in an American way !?
    >> Is that the bias of that ' great ' nation !? Pathetic...
    >> No offence intented,
    >> Regards,
    >> Kenneth
    > None taken, Kenneth. But are you saying the Jews and the Palestinians have
    > no control over what they are doing? That they have no choice? That they
    > could not use other means to solve their problems? If that's your stance, I
    > disagree completely. We are all responsible for our actions. No one is
    > making the Jews build on land they ceded to the Palestinians after the 6-day
    > war. No one is making the Palestinians wrap themselves in explosives and
    > throw away their lives in a futile gesture. No one is making either side
    > choose a life for a life, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth as their
    > guiding philosophy.

    Indeed no one is, and i agree up to a point. However the habituated cultural
    memes that both sides have make any kind of decsision that is contrary to
    these very difficult. Having looked at some of the work on conflict
    resolution, as we have discussed earlier, to move to a situation of win win
    is extremely hard. The people who argue for dialogue on both sides are
    drowned out by the vengance meme of both sides.
    > These are choices the people and the governments of the people have chosen
    > as the way to solve the problem of hanging on to land they both feel belongs
    > to them. They could choose to make rational decisions about what belongs to
    > whom and stick with those decisions in the face of outside pressure. But
    > they don't. And IMO that is the root of their problem. It's not what
    > happens to you that counts -- it's what you choose to do about it. What
    > they are doing about it is guaranteed to perpetuate the slaughter of
    > innocents until their houses are all rubble and the people are too weary and
    > decimated to fight anymore. Neither Europe and America nor the Islamic
    > states are making these decisions for them. IMO it's foolishness to think
    > they are. It's the memes they've adopted that guide their behavior. Memes
    > that go back thousands of years and continue to perpetuate themselves.
    > No offence intended here, either.

    Exactly. Its the memes they have taken on board over time. Unfortunately,
    once taken on they are dificult to lose. IMO it takes rational decisions to
    make a choice. rational decisions are undermined by the emotional attachment
    that we attach to certain memes.

    BTW Europe, America and the Islamic states are making decisions for them by
    the actions of groups within these states each of which are pushing their
    own agendas at the respective governments. Israel would have a harder job
    without F16's, as would the Palestinians without Iranian arms etc

    No flag waving here, as the UK Gov is probably up to something as well.
    > Grant

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