RE: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence

From: Vincent Campbell (
Date: Wed Feb 27 2002 - 14:41:28 GMT

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    From: Vincent Campbell <>
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    Subject: RE: Rumsfeld Says He May Drop New Office of Influence
    Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:41:28 -0000
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    >>How many months now, and where is bin Laden?

            <Well, now....

    > This seems like a most tepid condemnation to me.
    > As the savvy, retrogrouch lawyer said in the Star Trek episode where Kirk
    > was being court-martialed, 'it's only easy to find a man who _wants_ to
    > be found.'>
            Ok, but I was merely pointing out that the initial goal was to
    capture bin Laden and close down al-qaeda. Whilst he is at large, surely
    al-qaeda is not closed down? Whatever the plaudits we might offer for
    bringing down the Taliban, that was surely a side issue. If bin Laden had
    been elsewhere in the world, the Taliban would still be in power. A bit
    like Musharaff- a military dictator who took power via a coup- suddenly
    becoming Blair and Bush's best buddy. Expediency rules in international

            <The history of the world (nay, the record of nature itself) is a
    > of crimes and justices committed by people who have never come to their
    > senses, whatever that means. As you say, decades in North Ireland, and no
    > lessons seem to be learned.>
            That depends how you view the peace process in N.Ireland. Many
    still oppose it outright and commit violent acts, but many have put down
    their arms. Coming to their sense means recognising human rights,
    recognising self-determination, recognising negotiation is less damaging
    than war. Call me a naive woolly liberal pacifist if you like...

            <When I do 'flag-wave', it is to point to the lessons that created
    > documents that created this country, the declarations and manifestoes of
    > independence. If only the real flag had all those words somehow on it,
    > I'd wave that too.... It's supposed to....>
            Indeed, the British eventually had to acknowledge the intractable
    situation in the colony- that you lot would never give up until you got
    rights of self-determination, and that continuing to fight would cripple us
    to the point that our rights to self-determination would probably be taken
    away by a neighbour invading us. You lot also had the sense to write down
    more or less exactly what it was you'd been fighting for, which despite its
    limitations is far better than what we've got (or rather not got) in

            Flag-waving in any context other than sport (and even there much of
    the time) is a risky activity, yet we all engage in it wittingly or


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