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From: rmey4892 (rmey4892@postoffice.uri.edu)
Date: Mon Feb 25 2002 - 02:30:13 GMT

  • Next message: John Wilkins: "Re: stammbaum der menschen"

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    Local cultures are, in a very real sense, memetic species. Race is fast being
    recognized as impossible to find biologically, and most physical differences
    seem explainable through environmental and developmental mechanisms and

    Language is a main division, although difference there is also, IMHO, a local
    phenomenon. (We all _can_ have language. We can't have long necks or
    prehensile tails.) Music, especially the chromatic and tonic systems used, is
    another. For all intents and purposes, I consider religion irrelevant, since
    along with choice of transportation and fast food emporium it's more choosing
    whatever's handiest, if one is allowed to desire to choose anything at all-
    and that is not a species difference but a universal inertia.

    When we all of us discourse in english and listen to Yanni, or whatever, it
    will be a matter of plumage....

    - - Wade

    thanks for the welcome

    what is IMHO?

    good to know that I am not nuts.thanks to all for the generally favorable

    my genetics textbook points to some first hand sources that say as little as
    one gene can cause speciation. My idea is not a big leap from there, and the
    thing about races being not that different genetically is no impediment to a
    memetic species.

    we all can have genes. Those genes can make prehensile tails and long necks.
    these can be local genetic adaptations. These memes can build things as
    different as an igloo and jumbo jet which can also be considered local, since
    the materials for a jumbo jet are not easily found by Inuit tribe members. Are
    igloos and Jumbo Jets as different as prehensile tails and long necks? I think
    so.(oh yeah and technically we all can have long necks and prehensile
    tails....simply reverse every selection pressure that has ever occured in
    mankind to the common progenitor of life, then proceed up the branch of the
    tree of life to reach a prehensile tail or long neck)

    interesting that you should bring up music. I actually wondered if you were
    serious there at first, but it makes sense. Much can be communicated through
    the medium of music and I think that whatever Tuvan throat-singers sing about
    is completely lost on me (God Bless 'em....They sing two notes at once!!!!!)

    finally its not so easy to chose whatever is handiest. Religion, fast food,
    and cars are hard to come by if you've never seen them before. There may be
    some inertia to fill the basic underlying biological needs these represent
    (picking fruit from a fruit tree appears to me to be the fastest food I ever
    saw, and perhaps I would not need to be "given" the meme for it.). It is
    probably true, that genetic instructions sometimes define what must be
    memetically derived, but the opposite should be true as well since memetics
    can direct the flow of genes too (Disease resistance in sedentary cultures
    (Jared Diamond, Guns Germs and Steel)).

    Memetic species should be coherent collections of traditions(not just one as
    someone proposed). large collections of memeplexes that form a large coherent
    body of information (with some variation obviously mixed in for good measure)
    should be considered memetic species, so religion can have a part in it too,
    but not all of it. The point is moot anyway, since memetic species will soon
    disappear forever (until space exploration...Go Star Trek).

    Finally, thank you for the reading list, I may get around to it soon, but I am
    otherwise occupied. Any other suggestions don't hesitate to write. I am
    specifically interested in your opinion (John Wilkins) since your are most
    aptly qualified for review of this subject.



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