Received: by alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk id EAA09604 (8.6.9/5.3[ref email@example.com] for cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk from firstname.lastname@example.org); Tue, 19 Feb 2002 04:54:58 GMT Message-ID: <00b801c1b900$fa921220$d486b2d1@teddace> From: "Dace" <email@example.com> To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> References: <E1943439-2406-11D6-8DEC-003065B9A95A@harvard.edu> Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #952 Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:50:37 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: email@example.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> On Sunday, February 17, 2002, at 04:47 , Dace wrote:
> > To be memetic,the behavior must be self-motivated, a product of
> > culturally imposed habit
> The behavior-only stance just eliminates (as impossible to determine)
> the 'to be memetic' step.
> Thus, "the meme must be self-motivated, a product of culturally imposed
> However, "culturally-imposed habit" is problematic, as, can habits be
> said to be self-motivated?
That's the whole point of habits. The behavior or association proceeds of
its own accord, without any direction from human intelligence. Instead of
reflecting human-style "selfishness," it takes on the unreflective
selfishness we find among living things in general. Once the habit has
jumped from individual to group, it's a meme.
> Further, are _any_ habits memes? Or, are all cultural habits memes?
They're all memes, whether habits of thought or behavior. Either way they
exist in minds.
> (Static memes of cultural turpitude, like shaking hands, driving on the
> right, saying 'excuse me' after belching....)
This illustrates the fluid boundary between meme and idea/behavior. If
you're from England, driving on the right is not a meme. The guy honking
behind you is driving memetically while you're awkwardly pursuing an
intentional behavior. Before he can be infected with the meme of
apologizing for burping, a Hindu would have to intentionally practice this
odd behavior a few times before it became ingrained.
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