Re: Words and Memes

From: Joe Dees (
Date: Mon Feb 18 2002 - 01:50:09 GMT

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    > "Grant Callaghan" <> Re: Words and MemesDate: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:01:53 -0800
    >> > >In my view, memetics is all about the struggle between reflective
    >> > >human self-replicators and unreflective memetic self-replicators.
    >> >
    >> > I don't understand this conflict business.
    >>The conflict arises because, inevitably, some of our memified notions will
    >>be pathological. Ideas can't distinguish between right and wrong. Any
    >>idea, no matter how ridiculous, can become self-replicating. Though quite
    >>powerful, "L. Ron is God" doesn't contribute to the good of the social
    >>It's a freelance meme, much like a carcinogenic cell. When an alternative
    >>social body begins to form around a carcinogenic meme, the result is cult,
    >>not culture.
    >> > Humans are as adapted to load and run memes as
    >> > computers are to load and run software. Software is useless without
    >> > without hardware and vice versa. In our mental lives we are self
    >> > self programming, start from a single cell organisms. And what we can
    >> > load depends to high extent on what we have loaded earlier. As an
    >> > example, you won't get anywhere with higher mathematics without a
    >> > foundation clear down to arithmetic, and you need a foundation of
    >> > physical concepts you learn as a small child such as counting and
    >> > quantity even before you get to arithmetic.
    >>We need memes in order to progress beyond the simplest level of culture.
    >>But they'll turn around and bite us if we're not careful.
    >> >
    >> > Keith
    >> >
    >Over the long and bloody history of tribes competing for land and resources,
    >the memes of war have saved our ancestors as often as the memes of peace.
    >The Indo-Europeans worshiped gods of war as did the Greeks and Romans.
    >Until the idea of one god came along, every civilization I've read about had
    >a form of worship built around asking some god for success in battle. The
    >Chinese used to write their requests on the backs of turtle shells and the
    >shoulder blades of sheep.
    >The martial arts we practice today were handed down from the peaceful
    >buddhists. No civilization has been without its dark and bloody side and
    >the religious ferver that goes with it. It's hard to offer one's body up in
    >battle without a belief system to justify the act. It's a way of overcoming
    >fear. Fear itself is a soldier's greatest enemy. It gets in the way of
    >what he has to do.
    Fear is the mind-killer...
    Paul Muad-dib (otherwias known as Paul Atreides)
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    >This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    >Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    >For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

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    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

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