Re: memetics-digest V1 #952

From: Dace (
Date: Sun Feb 17 2002 - 21:47:13 GMT

  • Next message: Kenneth Van Oost: "Fw: Why memeoids?"

    Received: by id VAA01014 (8.6.9/5.3[ref] for from; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:56:35 GMT
    Message-ID: <006901c1b7fc$aa994ea0$9086b2d1@teddace>
    From: "Dace" <>
    To: <>
    References: <>
    Subject: Re: memetics-digest V1 #952
    Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:47:13 -0800
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    X-Priority: 3
    X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
    X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
    X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
    Precedence: bulk

    > > From: Steve Drew
    > >
    > >>>>> Which is why it doesn't make much sense to regard memes as
    > >>>>> tools. Ideas are tools. Ways of doing things can be thought of as
    > >>>>> tools. Memes spring up when the tools start running on auto-pilot.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> I find it hard to separate ideas from memes.
    > >>>
    > >>> Then what's the point of invoking memes? Why not just refer to them
    > >>> as ideas?
    > >>
    > >> With respect to the ideas / memes thing. I wouyld suggest that all
    > >> are memes (or have some memetic quality) but that not all memes are
    > >> ideas.
    > >
    > > Ideas become memetic only when they self-replicate. When they replicate
    > > through human intention, they're just ideas. Yes, memes can involve
    > > behavior as well as ideas. But if we equate memes with behavior and
    > > ideas, then we might as well just refer to behavior and ideas and forget
    > > about "memes." There has to be something that distinguishes some
    > > behaviors and ideas from others. When they're not only habitual but
    > > *culturally* habitual, then they constitute memes.
    > I was hedging slightly when i used the term memetic quality to cover ideas
    > that have not been propagated yet along the lines of the potential memes.
    > My point was that you cannot term all behaviours as memetic as not all
    > behaviours are learnt from others. Eg i did not need lesson in not putting
    > my hand into a flame as the pain reflex teaches me not to do it.

    And you don't need memes to explain behaviors based on simple intention. To
    be memetic, the behavior must be self-motivated, a product of culturally
    imposed habit.


    This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
    Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
    For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sun Feb 17 2002 - 22:44:03 GMT