Hans Cees:
> >self-reproducing is a subset of self-producing (autopoiesis)
> This is not true, until proven differently I assume that there are
> systems that are not selfproducing but are self-reproducing
> [hypercycles].
Could the source of the above disagreement be that we are using
different definitions of "self-reproducing"?
Are you viewing "self-reproducing" as meaning just that
something makes a copy of itself? If so, then I believe you
are right to say that "self-reproducing" is not a subset of
"self-producing".
I was, though, using a more restrictive definition of
"self-reproducing" that not only indicated that it was the
self making the copy, but also indicated that the copy was
made by internally producing (or processing) the components.
Thus, I was thinking along the following lines:
(where A<-B means that A is a subset of B)
and using the following abbreviations:
R = replicating (a copy of something is made)
SR = self replicating (something makes a copy of itself)
OR = other replicating (something else makes the copy)
SP = self-producing = autopoeisis
SRP = self-reproducing
(I hope this lines up properly on your screen. If you can, use
a viewer that gives the same width for every character)
OR <- R -> SR -> SR by assembly <- self replacing by
of externally swapping its parts
| (produced or with externally
| processed) (produced, or
V parts processed) parts.
SR by internally producing
extra copyies of all of its ^
components which self-organize |
in such a way to yied a new |
autonomous self-producing sysetm |
(also called SRP) |
^
|
SP (autopoeisis) self-replacing by
All of its components (that are either internally
the efficient cause of something) <- or externally
are internally produced (or produced parts
processed) to replace degraded
components. It may or may not
self-produce another copy of
itself.
Self producing is definately not a subset of self replicating
I guess it is conceivable that a sysetm could internally produce
parts that were only used for the construction of a copy of itself...
that is...the system never uses the internally produced parts to replace
its own parts. In such a case, then indeed a self-reproducing system would
not be a self-producing system. Although, If you define "self-producing"
just as "internally producing all of its components" then a Self-reproducing
system would be a subset of "self-producing" where self-producing contains the
union of those systems that internally produce components for themselves
and internally produces components for a copy. Some systems will do both.
If you agree with these concepts, feel free to relable the sets with
more appropriate words!!!
Jeff Prideaux
Jprideaux@gems.vcu.edu
BS Electrical engineering,
MS Biomedical engineering
Currently at Virginia commonwealth university pursuing a Ph.D.
in Physiology