Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 09:47:43 -0700
From: Bill Spight <bspight@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Children and psychosis was: HEA report on religion and mental
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Dear Chris,
Chris:
"Fundamentalist thinking is child-like, and so is psychotic thinking. Jamestown etc suggests a severe mental problem in fundamentalist groups (heaven's gate (?)as well).
In this sense all children are born psychotic"
That is just a touch different to the way you reformatted it to become an absolute assertion with no context. Very 'totalist' of you :-)
What 'nerve' did I touch?
Bill:
Yes, you touched a couple of nerves. I did not reply to them directly, because I like you and I do not believe that your intentions were less than benign. But since you asked. . . .
Chris:
Fundamentalist thinking is child-like, and so is psychotic thinking.
Bill:
This is a fallacy: A therefore B, C therefore B, suggesting A therefore C; i. e., that fundamentalist thinking is psychotic. I dislike such name-calling and smearing with a broad brush.
Chris:
Jamestown etc suggests a severe mental problem in fundamentalist groups (heaven's gate (?)as well).
Bill:
(I think that you are referring to Jonestown. -- Although I am sure that there were plenty of problems in Jamestown, as well. ;-))
Again the broad brush.
OED:
Fundamentalism . . .
A religious movement . . . based on strict adherence to orthodox tenets (e. g., the literal inerrancy of Scripture) held to be fundamental to the Christian faith.
Bill:
OC, we apply the term to other religions than Christianity, e. g., to Islam and Judaism. I suppose that we could call Hinayana Buddhism fundamentalist, too, by contrast with Mahayana.
However, with a new cult such a Heaven's Gate, can we even talk about traditional belief? I do not know much about the teaching of Jones, but I am not at all sure that it was fundamentalist. I would think that the cult of personality in Jonestown was rather *unorthodox*, however.
Linking fundamentalism with such extreme groups is a smear tactic of which I thoroughly disapprove. As I said, I do not believe you had malicious intent, but that was one nerve you touched.
The second nerve was the use of a psychological term as a put-down. When you say that all children are born psychotic, you do not mean that in a derogatory fashion. However, when you take that descriptive statement and apply it to religious belief, the term becomes derogatory. Your intent does not matter.
You are suggesting that fundamentalism is a delusion that people suffer from because there is something wrong with them. It is also possible to say that fundamentalism is an illusion, without suggesting personal flaws in its followers.
Your statement is rather strong. And it is problematic from a memetic point of view. Most people adhere to the belief systems of their cultures. Does that mean that there is something wrong with them? Fundamentalism is interesting to me, memetically, because of the strength it gives to written memes. (The G-meme triumphant!) The chief characteristic of fundamentalist thinking is dogmatic adherence to scripture and orthodoxy. What does that have to do with psychotic thinking?
Best,
Bill
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